Walthamstow look up please

[Tracynz]

Hi

Looking for Francis Western (male) born around 1779-1780

could be spelt Weston or Westren

Thanks heaps
Tracy

[Bryant]

Hello Tracy

Let the jigsaw commence

I gather these are yours?
1841
HAGGER LANE, WALTHAMSTOW, ESSEX
FRANCIS WESTERN  62  AG LAB   YES (BORN ESSEX)
ELIZABETH     "         52                YES
ABRAM            "         22       "       YES
JOHN              "          20      "        YES
FRANCES        "          24                YES
ALFRED           "          3                 YES
--------------------

Their is a marriage on the IGI's of a FRANCIS WESTERN to a ELIZABETH JEWELL on the 7th January 1805 at St Leonards, Shoreditch, Middx........but is it them?

where were they all born?

1861
CHAPEL END, WALTHAMSTOW
ALFRED WESTERN    HEAD   23  AG LAB    WALTHAMSTOW
ELIZA         "             WIFE   27                 BUCKLESBURY, BERKS
ALICE         "             DAUR   4                             "             "
CHARLES    "              SON    7 MONTHS     WALTHAMSTOW
------------------

1861
GREAT WARNER STREET, CLERKENWELL, MIDDX
JOHN WESTERN   HEAD   40   LAB   WALTHAMSTOW
SUSAN       "         WIFE   38             CAMBRIDGESHIRE
ELIZABETH "         DAUR   12            CLERKENWELL, MIDDX
FRANCIS     "         SON     6                         "
MARY          "         DAUR   4                          "
ANNE          "            "       2                          "
SUSAN        "            "       6 MONTHS            "
-------------------- 

ABRAHAM WESTERN (the 2nd eldest child in 1841) appears to have married 1844 West Ham R.D..........what happened to him and was he also born Walthamstow..........is he around in 1851 (not available to me)

Bryant 

[Tracynz]

Hi Bryant

Thanks so much for your time in looking this up for me

This is the family I am trying to trace

Francis 62 in 1841 has daughter Frances 24 living with him and her son Alfred, she goes on to have another son Charles which is where I stem from

There is no father on the birth certificates for either Alfred or Charles, but Frances goes on to marry John Ranner

I have searched every possible site I can find looking for the birth of Francis but have found nothing at all

Tracy NZ

[Bryant]

Tracy

I gather that Frances has the maiden name of Western on those birth certs?

You need to find a christianing of one of the children on the 1841 or siblings that have flown the nest.......... and I would imagine that their could be quite a few more children that have done just that?

if that 1805 marriage is them, perhaps people of that name born in that area of Middx are worth investigating ?

Is this the marriage of Fanny
JOHN LESTER RANNER married FRANCIS WESTERN.......SHOREDITCH R.D...SEP QTR...1849
if so ........what happened to them after they married?

Bryant

[Tracynz]

Hi again

I think I might have confused things

I have the family (children) of Francis Western and Elizabeth Jewell

they are
jane 20/1/1805             Grace 10/4/1808         Susannah 10/9/1809        Thomas 1/9/1811
Martha 2/5/1813            Frances 20/10/1816  Abraham 11/4/1819 and John 18/2/1821

Frances 20/10/1816 had Alfred Western 13/5/1838 and Charles 3/10/1841 neither have a father on the birth certificates

Charles married Elizabeth Glanville - one of their children Frederick Alfred 14/11/1870
Charles and Elizabeth marry Shoreditch 29/12/1867
Frederick Alfred marry Annie Hannah Elizabeth Godfrey (have no details on her)
one of their children Henry Joseph married Rosina Gertrude Wake on 14/1/1933 who are my grandparents their son Arthur Frederick is my dad

so its Francis who married Elizabeth Jewell who im trying to find the parents of or where he was actually born

its all so mind bogling and pretty hard and limited from New Zealand tracing family in England

[Bryant]

Ahhhhhhh...


Quote.........
Frances 20/10/1816 had Alfred Western 13/5/1838 and Charles 3/10/1841 neither have a father on the birth certificates
Alfred  & Charles.......on their marriage certs it should provide the father's names of the respective bride & groom.........did it give the father's name as John Lester Ranner or ?
Do you know who "Alfred" married ie Elizabeth (was she married before?) ......daughter Alice appears to be ALICE SARAH WESTON born Mar qtr 1857...Bradfield R.D (Bucklebury), if you haven't got that marriage cert you may need Alice's birth cert to ascertain mother's maiden name (I don't see the marriage!) and being 11+ by the time his mother Frances married in 1849 he would have known John Ranner wasn't his father! but did he know who was?

The aim is/was to find Francis's birth/place!.....but as he only appears in one census (1841) and that doesn't give where he was born........(Essex is a big place when searching)
find the birthplace of the earliest children and see where it leads you.....well that was the theory

so it was that marriage in 1805 and you do have places of birth for the earlier children ....that being Walthamstow. So......its a possibility that they returned to Francis's home turf after marriage? ........then again he could have originated from anywhere in Essex.......for example Rivenhall 45 miles away but no Francis

Elizabeth Jewell's family.........did they come from the Parish of St Leonard's Shoreditch?

QUESTION........
you don't know of any siblings of Francis born circa 1770's-1785 do you?
and you don't know for definite that he was born Walthamstow?
and on that Parish record of 1805 who are the witnesses?

Bryant

[Daisypetal]

Hi,

This looks like Francis in 1851,


1851  HO107/1769  f.243  p.27  Walthamstow
Chapel End

Francis WESTERN    Head  Widr  72    Lab    Essex Moton End
Alfred       "  "                         12               "  "    Walthamstow
Charles      "  "                         9                "  "          "  "
Sophia MAXWELL             Wid   68              "  "          "  "


Regards
Daisy

[Bryant]

SO............he came from MOTON END

you know what the next question is...........where the h... is MOTON END

I dug out the discs to have a look at it myself and it does look like MOTON/MOTOW/MOTOR END any of which is still unfamiliar with me!

Anyone any suggestions on where it is?

AND.........who is Sophia Maxwell (the widow) as she doesn't appear to be in the 1841 census! .......and the only female Maxwell to die in the years that follow within the West Ham R.D (Walthamstow) is Mary Maxwell (no age against her death) who died in 1864 West Ham R.D.

Francis Western appears to die in 1855  West Ham R.D........you could purchase the death cert and see if Sophia Maxwell (a sister perhaps?) registered the death........and if it wasn't her who did, who was it? as its doubtful it would have been one of the boys ie Alfred or Charles.

Bryant

[Tracynz]

Thank you so much for your time and effort in assisting me - it is greatly appreciated and I hope that I dont overdo my persistence

Alfred was born (have birth cert) 13/5/1838 looks like Hale End in the Parish of Walthamstow - father has lines - - - - and mother is Francis Western

Charles was born (have birth cert) 3/10/1851 Hale End same as Alfred and no father lister

The death of Mr. Francis Western was reported by Harriet Challis who is is granddaughter.  Francis daughter Susannah married Geroge Challis and it was registered in chapel End

in 1861 Charles was living with his mother and her husband then John Ranner - charles is listed as son in law - but this is not the case!!

Thanks again and hopefully there is a light at the end of this tunnell
tracy