Scoonie/Leven Marriage Look Up Please

[bones58]

Hello All,

I was hoping that finding the marriage for William and Elizabeth would firstly confirm that I had the right parents for Elizabeth, to make sure I was tracing the right family, and secondly to find out anything about William, although he  isn't a priority because I'm actually descended from one of Elizabeth's illegitimate children !

All the information I have on the Trail family has come from the IGI on the LDS site and I don't know how accurate this is, so I try to verify it.

To answer  Tom's questions;
William and Elizabeth were in Eye, Suffolk in 1861 but by 1865 had moved to Kings Lynn in Norfolk. William was a flax dresser so this may be why they moved around. The family stayed in Kings Lynn after William's death in 1867 and Elizabeth later married William Wilkin Johnson in 1876.

There is an entry on the IGI for the birth of Ann Meldrum on 6/12/1807 which shows her parents as Robert Meldrum and Mary Gardiner.
Again this is an assumption on my part that it is the right person.

Bones

[trish251]

Hi Bones

I have not had any joy finding this marriage - what was the occupation of Elizabeth's father. Is it possible that the family spent any time in Ireland? and the marriage took place there? Could they have had a catholic marriage and simply not registered same? Seems unlikely as the child was registered. Did "irregular" marriages still exist in Scotland at this time? Monica may know the answer to that.


Trish

In relation to Tom's commment I would like to add


My, what a fuss about this point whilst ignoring the huge amount of work that I've done on the family! Is it really all that important to Bones? The point is, Henry COWAN's birth was certainly not illegitimate. His parents were certainly married at the time of his birth in Scoonie.

sorry Tom - most folks find that primary sources ARE important. if an 1858 marriage is NOT on ScotlandsPeople,  it was NOT registered. This is a very basic fact of Scottish family research.  Finding out if a non-registered marriage actually happened, is very difficult. Bones is interested in discovering this very fact - Did the marriage happen. That was the first question asked at the beginning of the thread.

The huge amount of work you posted on this thread

can be easily traced on the IGI (extracted records) in a short period of time - excluding your location at the end of WWII, which doesn't help find the marriage for Bones. I would doubt the comment about the COWANS in Fife, simply because Bones has said (and the census shows) that William Cowan came from Ireland.

[Gadget]

I've been reading this thread as well  and have done similar searches to Monica, Sancti, Trish and Bones and have found nothing.

I think it is likely that it was either a Common law or an irregular marriage or did not take place in Scotland.

Gadget

[tommacgregor]

Hello Bones,

Many thanks for your message giving me the answers to my questions. I have been interested in the WESTWATER/TRAIL connection as you can see from my previous postings. I was quite surprised to see a few TRAILS down in the Land of the Sassenach's around the Lowestoft area whilst I was enjoyng myself with my hobby. Don't get the wrong idea about the IGI, as I don't derive all my information from that source.

As a matter of interest, are you in touch with descendants of Betty TRAIL and Alexander WESTWATER? At the moment, I'm in contact with relatives of mine here in Australia as well as Canada and the U.K. It's quite surprising sometimes when they casually come up with snippets of information that one was unaware of, and even those lovely old photographs.

Now that you seem to have a few other researchers taking an interest in your ancestors, you may be able to obtain a bit more detail.

Again, many thanks, for your response,

Kind Regards,


Tom.

[tommacgregor]

Hello again, Bones,

Isn't it amazing how my comments can be distorted. The work that I was referring to was not simply on this thread, I was talking about my postings about the WESTWATER's and other connecting families.

As I was saying earlier, the whole area around Leven, Scoonie, Buckhaven, Kettle and Kilconquhar are familiar places to me, and so, naturally enough, I'm able to write about from personal experience. Quite a few other researchers appreciate a bit of local knowledge, and it certainly helps to add a splash of colour.

A lady has sent me a personal e-mail overnight,and again, because her query involves connections with my own family, I will probably be able to fill in quite a bit of information for her whilst describing exactly where her people lived. You sure don't get that kind of information on the IGI or SP.

Kind Regards,


Tom.

[Gadget]

Tom

While I agree with you that local knowledge, local history  and stories/recollections of place are an essential part of  any study of our ancestors, these must be seen as setting the scene for the vital records that form the skeleton of our studies.

These vital records - births, marriages (whatever form) , deaths, baptisms, burials  are the evidence that we  use to substantiate our claims.

As far as I can see, Bones asked for information on a marriage. No one has been able to find it in the official records. You have stated categorically on this thread  that they did marry. Is it not then important that you give your source?

Gadget

[trish251]

Hi Bones

If  we did all our research via snippets of family information, there would be the continuation of the myths generated through many years, by families telling stories to cover the truth, or because they do not know the truth. I have so much evidence of this, both from my own family members - in Canada, the US, England, Scotland, NZ, SA and even Germany - almost forgetting Australia - and from the many researchers on RootsChat.

Keep searching for primary sources - especially in the days of civil registration. Back beyond the 19th century, such sources may be more difficult to come by and items such as family bibles and diaries come into their own, but check those family stories - they are sometimes more fiction than fact.

Extracted records on the IGI are a very good source of information - especially as they are available at no charge. If you live near an LDS family centre you can order the films of the parish records from which these indexes were made and see a copy of  (in many cases) the original church records. Some civil records (1855-1875) from Scotland have also been indexed on the IGI. We do have to remember, however, that the IGI is an index, created by LDS members. Transcription errors can occur and looking for further verification of events is always a good idea.

Submitted records on the IGI are only as good as the researcher's sources and we really have no idea about that, when accessing the IGI. I put them into the same class as unsubstantiated family stories, or any listing or statement of an event where a source is not given. Further investigation is needed.

For those who wish to pay for the ease of accessing similar information at home   ScotlandsPeople has images of parish records (from the Church of Scotland) for births/marriages online.

One advantage of seeing the complete parish images from the LDS (apart from cost   is that burials (if recorded) are included on the film. These have not been indexed by the LDS or by SP.

Trish

To respond to the last post from Tom

Family stories and knowledge are the "meat on the bones" They turn the facts into a family story, rather than a genealogical diagram. It is somewhat pointless, to have the meat, without any bones. How many times have folks spent years tracing the wrong family    There are countless discussions of these issues on roots chat.

None of this  discussion solves the dilema that is a missing marriage record  so I will attempt to stay on the subject and not be sidelined by  conversations on other issues including the WESTWATER's whoever they may be.

[sancti]

Tom, I'm sure everyone appreciates the work you do on Rootschat and I'm also sure that you appreciate that what makes Rootschat so successful is the sharing of information and sources to allow Rootschatters to use these sources to continue to help other Rootschatters.

 I am not familiar with all the sources available online for doing genealogical searches and therefore I was interested in how you found the record of the marriage that Bones requires to move back in the family line.

[trish251]

Sancti

I am truly confused - most folks who have sources are very willing to share them. I have rarely seen Tom provide a source. I have seen both yourself, Gadget and Monica provide wonderful information to other roots chatters which always includes sources.  I think you have a very good knowledge of researching on the internet - please don't sell yourself short, you are a wonderful help & will say if you cannot find something, rather than assume it must exist

Trish