Male or Female?

[honey-roma88]

Oh wow, thank you so much igorstrav.

The Jane Elizabeth Holland could well be her. Charlotte had three sisters Jane, Elizabeth and Julia (my g grandmother) so it is possible she named her after two of her sisters.

So do you think Jane Elizabeth Holland was born in 1908 in Southwark and died in 1912 in Camberwell? I might just have to order some certificates I think. 

[elin]

Well done, IgorStrav! That does sound promising.

honey-roma , do let us know what you find out.

Elin

[honey-roma88]

Well done, IgorStrav! That does sound promising.

honey-roma , do let us know what you find out.

Elin

Thank you all so much for helping me. I think I will order some certificates and will tell you all as soon as I know. 

[PaulaToo]

Having just found this, I can't leave it without saying...
The bonnet matches the dress....
A boy in a bonnet? Oh come ON.
....waiting to be proved wrong.....but I think the older one is the girl.

[silv]

i tought that too Paula--'a boy in a bonnet!!',   plus----i know boys wore dresses at one time [i have a picture of my dad as a baby in a crocheted one]  but don't you think it's a bit too dressy for a boy? too much lace??

chris.

[PaulaToo]

Yes, chris, I think you are right there, it is a bit girly, isn't it.
Bet your dad looks good in his frock.
I've got one of my uncle....he grew to over 6 ft tall, in a fetching broderie anglaise creation...

[Rabbit B]

Hi Everyone,

I have only just found this thread!  Not one of you has mentioned how like the Father the children are!  They are a truely lovely family!

They all have the Irish eyes, my opinion is that no boy, even in the days when they wore dresses would be wearing so much lace as well, round the neck certainly, but NEVER on a skirt, and I do agree with Paula about the bonnet.

There is nothing odd either in the eldest child having shorter hair!  They used to cut it! QED.

Rabbit B 

[IgorStrav]

Another thought.

If Johnny was born in Oct qtr, 1911, and I think if he is the baby then he is about six months old, here, then the picture will be taken in the April qtr of 1912.

And if Jane Elizabeth Holland is the correct name, then she died in that quarter.

So if we are right, then you are correct in saying that she died very soon after this photograph was taken.

What a very sad story.  Given the great family likeness of both children, I think the parents must have had a reminder every day, looking at Johnny, of the loss of their daughter. 

[honey-roma88]

Thank you all so much.

I agree that the older one looks like the girl. I had seen boys in dresses and when I saw the bonnet I thought it had to be the girl but never could get the boyishness of the older child (and similarity to Johnny as a grown boy) out of my mind. I know they used to cut hair but it looked like quite a boyish cut, I have never seen a girl around that time with a boyish haircut before so I wasn't sure. 

Rabbit - they look just like their dad don't they (i think i mentioned it earlier), don't look a thing like Charlotte and she was a striking lady. Definitely beautiful Irish eyes.