Male or Female?

[honey-roma88]

i think johnny is the oldest as i have a family photo from the early 1900's and the boy's are wearing dresses.

is the baby in the pram wearing bows and ribbons...even back then boys didn't wear boys and ribbons! 

they really are nice children and its so tragic that the little girl died especially because her parents seem like such nice children...the little girls death must have haunted her father til he died! 

Yes, they were nice people. Jack was a lovely man, adored his kids so it must have killed him inside. You can see the problem I have identifying them though can't you. Some people are certain the eldest is the girl, others are certain it's a boy...I am sooooo confused. 
I hadn't even noticed the ribbons, I'll have to go and look again.

[IgorStrav]

It's true that the baby in the picture has wide bows on the shoulders of whatever the garment is it's wearing.  However, these could just be the fastening of the garment, like a bib with a bow tie would be?

I think it would be possible to put either child as either gender - but what worries me is that if John R Holland (1911, Lambeth), mother's maiden name Putland, is the elder child - where is the birth reference of the baby?

I must confess I was looking in the Ancestry summary listing, not the actual BMD listings for Holland.

I will have a look - we think the elder child, girl or boy is 4 years older than the baby, do we? - in c 1915 to see if there IS a baby girl Holland with Putland as the mother's maiden name.

[IgorStrav]

There are no Holland births at all, male or female, with Putland as mother's maiden name, in 1912, 1913, 1914, 1915, or 1916.

Are we therefore thrown back on the thought that the elder of the two MUST be the girl who sadly died?  They had no other children, did they?

[IgorStrav]

And the last thing for tonight............I've just been explaining it to my OH and my daughter and they alternate between boy/girl for each child................is that my daughter had very fine hair when she was young and it took a very long time to grow to the length she wanted.

So if it is the girl on the left, perhaps she just had very fine blonde hair which hadn't grown a lot, yet.

[honey-roma88]

There are no Holland births at all, male or female, with Putland as mother's maiden name, in 1912, 1913, 1914, 1915, or 1916.

Are we therefore thrown back on the thought that the elder of the two MUST be the girl who sadly died?  They had no other children, did they?

No, no others. That baby was the last sadly. As soon as I get the death certificate I will post on here, thank you all so much for your help. 

[eeyores4me]

I think the older one is a boy too I have seen that hair style on boyes from that time

[honey-roma88]

Hello everyone 

I have received the certificate and I think it might well be her meaning the elder child would be the girl. Although I still can't be definite it does look like it is her. The father is John Holland, a hawker and she died in Southwark Infirmary. She appears to have died from Lobar Pneumonia - strangely enough the second person in my family to die from it. My gg grandfather's brother died of it after he broke his ribs being dragged by his horse on his rag and bone cart down the North End Road. I assume she must have had her ribs broken, just like Felix and infection set in. We had always assumed she had broken her neck but I suppose he would have had to turn her right over but he must have just dropped her. I will probably get the birth certificate now just to be extra sure but it seems pretty clear.

Thank you everyone for helping me. 

[PaulaToo]

Have a read down this, Roma
http://www.brown.edu/Courses/Digital_Path/Lungs/bronchopneumonia.htm

Many people died of Bronchitis /pneumonia. A lot was to do with the conditions they lived in. When people were ill and confined to bed, I believe the lung disorders set in.
Perhaps there were no broken ribs, but the poor lamb was injured enough to be confined to bed and deteriorated.

Which ever way, it is a tragic story.

[eeyores4me]

I know North end road well my husband used to live off there.