Trying to trace a Southwark hatter, early 1800s...

[PrueM]

Hi all,

I may have posted this query before but it would have been a while ago.  I've had the same query on the Rootsweb British Hatters mailing list for the past 2 years, a not a nibble    This is the big stumbling block in my husband's family so I would love some advice please.

I'm looking for John Wood and his wife Lucy. 
According to his childrens' baptismal records (at St Saviour's,
Southwark) John was married to Lucy, and was a hatter.  The children
were baptised between 1801 and 1811:

John Mallett WOOD b. 1801 bap. 1801
Matthew Crompton WOOD b. 1802 bap. 1805
Mary Ann WOOD b. 1805 bap. 1805
Amelia WOOD b. 1809 bap. 1811 

I think I may have found John in
the St Olave's Union Workhouse in Southwark/Bermondsey in 1841, aged
65, born in county, but no Lucy.  I have never found a marriage for
John and Lucy, I had the London Met Archives search St Saviour's
parish records but no luck.

There is a John WOOD, hat tip maker, shown on Snowsfields in
Bermondsey in the 1838 Pigot's directory, which I suspect might be my
man (although I don't know what a hat tip maker actually did).

I would love some advice on where to look for more information
about John.  As far as I know, none of his children followed him into
the profession, so I don't have anything else to go on apart from what
I've posted here.

I'd appreciate any help and advice you can give me!

Thank you!

Prue

[jorose]

According to Google Books:
Hat Tip Maker: a manufacturer of silk pieces for the lining of the crowns of hats


How many of the children have you traced forward?
Did they all stick to the Southwark area?
Have you checked the witnesses at their marriages?

I see only:
Matthew Crompton Wood m. Phillis Ball, 12 Nov 1826 Saint Mary, Newington.  (Has he died by 1841? His wife Phillis seems to be in Lambeth by herself with the children).

Probably you could also look for possible Lucy Mallett or Lucy Crompton births...

[julie08]

Hi Prue,
I found this webpage a couple of weeks ago when looking for some of my family in Southwark around the 1830s. The Kembles were living in Great Guildford Street in 1841 and I noticed that some of their neighbours were hatters - something that stood out as the Kembles' daughter had married the son of a hatter from Yorkshire and her son (the Kembles' grandson) also became a hatter. I looked through the census pages either side of their entry and there were MANY hatters. So I did some research and found this

http://www.lostindustry.org.uk/EdPack/hattersdocument13.htm

Sorry it's not of direct help in looking for your Wood family, but I thought you might be interested.

Regards,
Julie
PS Somewhere else (maybe wikipedia?) I think I read that Christies employed around 1500 workers in the mid 19th century.

[willow154]

Hi Prue,
I've been looking for sites about the history of hatters, etc and found very little, I'm afraid.
I did, however, find a couple of sites you might find interesting (one shows how they made the felt hats). The other, although it talks about Denton, a suburb in Manchester, does tell about the state of the industry in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, and the Hatter's Union which was set up in 1790. Perhaps records still exist for this union -  they may name your ancestor, and give further information about where he was located. Hope so!
http://www.thehatsite.com/felt.html
http://www.tameside.gov.uk/denton/history
Good luck with finding new info to break down the brickwall.
Paulene

[PrueM]

That's great - thank you Pauline, and everyone else who's left helpful hints for me (I have obviously neglected to thank you earlier - very sorry    )

I'll have a browse throught the websites you mention, and see what comes to light.  You never know! 

Cheers
Prue

[MrBluesman]

Hi Prue,
I can't really help you a great deal but I have some info that may help. My 3rd Great Grandfather was a hatter who was born in Mansfield in 1803. I have traced his movements over the years via where his Children were born. He had 2 in Southwalk, 2 in Winterbourne Glos, 1 in Denton Lancashire and 1 in Gateshead. What I did find is the hat makers Christy's had a site in Bermondsey and in 1843 Christy's was the largest hat and cap making factory in the world. I also found that they later had sites in Gloustershire and in Stockport. It looks like my relative may have worked for them and moved around the country with the same company (although haven't proved that yet). Could well be the person you are looking for worked also for Christy's.

Regards
Andrew

[willow154]

Hi Prue
Just been reading an article in Ancestors magazine, and thought of you.
Like MrBluesman says mid nineteenth century had emerged as centre of the hatting industry. And, as Stockport flourished many London companies moved their entire operation to take advantage of lower labour costs (some maintained HQs in London).
Another centre was Luton (previously centre for straw-hat industry).
May lock-outs and strikes in Stockport in 1820s and 1830s (so unions obviously very active at this time). Workers in Lancs nicknamed 'Blue Banks' because of colour of their union cards. 'London Lilies' were apparently more militant.

Couple of sites recommended:
www.hatworks.org.uk
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/nra (*small number of hatter's records have been deposited at local records office).

So little in the way of records, Prue

I did briefly look on familysearch to see if I could find John and Lucy's wedding, but I couldn't either. Also looked to see if I could locate the children's weddings to see if an area emerged there - but the three I thought possible were a fair distance from Southwark.
Wonder if it might be worth finding out what workhouse records exist - they might hold the answers. The industry seemed very difficult at the time and the family sadly might have been in and out of there Difficult for you as you're so far away - I sympathise, not easy!
Anyway, hope this helps a little.
Paulene

[Catha]

I am also looking for a Hat making family who were living in Lambeth (Waterloo) from about c1820. The LOCKET(T) family moved from Manchester sometime between 1817 (when they baptised one of their children in Manchester) and 1820 (when they started to baptize their London born children in St Mary Lambeth and St John Waterloo).
I can't think why they would move from Manchester,one of the centres of the hat making trade, to London? I suppose the company they worked for in Manchester could have amalgamated with a London company? I know Christy's had a factory in Stockport, but didn't they move FROM London to Stockport, not the other way around? Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
Thanks! 

[MrBluesman]

Hi

Although there does seem to be a connection as far as my (White) family are concearned to their whereabouts and locations of Christies. I don't have any proof that this is who they worked for. The other possibility is a term known as 'tramping' which was apparently the name given to men and entire families travelling the country looking for work. There were places called 'turmhouses', often pubs, where information and cheap food/accomodation was available for such travellers. It could be a possibility that the Locketts and the Whites were typical Tramping families.

Regards
Andrew