White family of Whitehall Broughshane

[sarah]

Now the there has a been a fresh reply from Dawn. Elbo has now been notified of a new reply.

Regards

Sarah

[Cathy ck]

Hi, please can you let me know how I am connected to Sir George Stuart White. My mother is the daughter of James White (m Agnes Meban), Roughan, Broughshane. James White was in Horseguards and present at coronation of George V or VI before coming back to farm at Roughan, Broughshane. Jack White (George's son) visited frequently and according to my mother, wanted him to buy Whitehall, so it wouldn't go out of family's hands. My mother (who is 87) said she visited Whitehall occasionally as a little girl and said she hadn't felt comfortable there as there had been a fire which destroyed a lot (also letters). Her brother, Samuel White, is 95 and remembers Jack (son) and sons, Tony and Derrick, clearly. Tony came up to Roughan frequently to visit and my mother remembers Jack taking them into school into school, in horse and cart, noses running, eschewing use of school bus. Can anyone tell me how General Sir George is related to my grandfather, James White, of Roughan, Broughshane. Would be much appreciated. I would love to know.

[fohwhite]

Cathy, thanks for your msg.  Received just as I am leaving for evening-long banquet here.  Will research and get back to you tomorrow, Saturday, Sunday worst case.  For your info, I am seeking a direct male descendant of the Whites of Broughshane for DNA comparison with myself to confirm my link to the family through John White, the General's younger brother.   I have not been successful in finding AP White, the son of Derrick, grandson of Jack.  If your mother's brother is a direct male descendant through James, I will be asking if he will submit a DNA sample, all at my expense.  Be back to you soon.

Frank White
Colorado Springs

[Cathy ck]

Hi Frank, hope you enjoyed banquet. If it's any help, my grandfather, James White, was born c. 1877. He had a sister, Margretta, who died young. He had 6 children - Greta, May, Frank, Esther, Samuel (my uncle) and Kathleen, my mother. He had a brother, Jack (not Jack, George's son. Tried to attach pic of him in Horseguards in 1910 just before coronation of George V, before returning to family farm at Roughan, Broughshane, but it wouldn't send. Site said it was too big. Hope that may be of some use. Cathy

[Cathy ck]

Sorry, Frank. Just one correction. My Grandfather's brother was 'Johnny', not Jack!
Cathy

[fohwhite]

Cathy, thanks for additional info--confirms what I just found in 1901 Irish Census and Civil Registration documents.  Hoped to find link between James White (1832-1860), oldest brother of the General, to your Grandfather.  Not much info on 1832 James, just a mention (not even by name) in the the General's biography.  As your Grandfather was born well after 1832 James died in 1860, the illusive connection between families must be further back. 

You mentioned yesterday that Jack White didn't want Whitehall to go out of the family's hands, suggesting your Grandfather and he were of the same White clan.  Do you have any other indications (stories, recollections, etc. from your Mother, Samuel or others) that reinforce this suggestion? 

You also mentioned the fire and letters lost.  There is a legend that all of Jack's papers were burned after his death by his sister and wife.  In fact, there is a play by an Irish Anarchist writer that is based on this incident.  The play has never been performed but the script is available on the internet.  I will search on and keep you posted. 

Frank       

[Cathy ck]

Hi Frank, just spoke to my mum whose memory isn't what it used to be!

She told me that Captain Jack (George's son) and his son, Tony, used come in horse and trap to visit my grandfather, James, at Roughan, Broughshane, every Sunday. She said Tony was only a little boy then. She said it was indeed Jack who had wanted her father to buy Whitehall but he couldn't afford it as there were no mortgages in those days.

She said that she visited Whitehall with her father when she was a little girl after a fire and it frightened her because she remembered the big rounded doors and the fire marks. She said her father had gone down to help. There was some suspicion over whether the fire had been started deliberately. I don't know if this is the same fire as you mentioned.

She remembers that after Jack's death, solicitors came to visit and told her father that he was the now the nearest living relative to General Sir George. Wish I could find out how exactly.

We still have a large print of a picture of Sir George which she said hung in her Uncle Johnny's house from when George was still alive - a print of the original portrait commissioned by Queen Victoria and which still hangs in the Queen's collection in Buckingham Palace.

My grandfather is buried in the same graveyard as George who has a very impressive grave and commemoration in Broughshane.

My mum says she's 'not very clear' today, but if she remembers any more, I'll certainly get back to you! Keep in touch.

Cathy

[Cathy ck]

Hi Frank, think I've discovered link with my family to Sir George. My mum has just told me that his father was John White who died when he was around 64. She never met him as she was born in 1929. He was Sir George's younger brother - the eldest was James (the one you're researching). That would mean that Sir George was my grandfather's uncle! Hope that all makes sense.

Cathy

[fohwhite]

Cathy, wow!  Have to leave for service club picnic in a few minutes, so cannot respond in detail now.  Some quick reaction to your Mother's info.  If I am reading correctly, she is saying that your Grandfather James is son of John White (1839-1912), younger brother of Sir George.  If so, your Great Grandfather is precisely the man I am researching as my probable Great Grandfather.  For purposes of shorthand and clarity, I will refer to this John as the "Scholar."  I have studied his life very thoroughly, or as thoroughly as one can from Colorado, and can provide a great deal of biographical detail on his education, literary awards and professional life as an educator and public servant, most of his life lived in London.  Without going into detail now, I must tell you that I have never found evidence, and in fact, much to the contrary, that the Scholar ever married.  I believe my Grandfather John White (1864-1909) was an illegitimate son of the Scholar and sent to Canada to be raised out of sight of the aristocratic White family of Broughshane.  Ask you Mother if she knows of any Canadian connection to the family.

Frank