The Lusitania Sinking & Philips Park Cemetery

[bursy]

Hi Barbara

John & Gerda were both 3rd Class passengers and they did survive

If you have a look on the site I found in Reply #6, there is also a photo of Phoebe

Dave

[Barbara.H]

I have re-read my post and find I am burbling Dave      trying to say 2 things at once!

What I meant to say was -
1  if someone - don't know who yet - had perished on the Lusitania and their bodies were recovered in Ireland, it would presumably cost a lot to transport them to their home cemetery. So if victims had been carried from Ireland to Manchester for burial, chances are they would be among the more well-off passengers.

then while typing that,  I found the same John and Gerda that you did and thought
2  another explanation for a burial of Lusitania passengers in Philips Park might be that they had in fact survived the original disaster and come to live in Manchester. And as you say, the Lusitania story was altered in the telling later on.

  Barbara

[emmsthheight]

Hi

From the same link to Lest We Forget 1, have we got the Williams family from Manchester, England?

John and Annie Millman Williams were married in Manchester England in 1896.

Emigrated to New Jersey, April 1904.

John joined Cunard as a steward and returned to England on the last completed voyage.

Annie and six children were on the fatal voyage.

Edith, John Edward, George Albert, Ethel, Florence and David.  Possibly three more.

Only John Edward and Edith survived.  Edith married and divorced in the US and died there.

That leaves John Edward and father John.  They would be survivers of a family who perished.  Various fairly sad suggestions about the family.

A brilliant link though, thank you!

Emms

[emmsthheight]

Hi again.

Splitting this for simplicity.

Another couple of thoughts about cost.

When I was researching a friend's WW1 family, and looking for more details for one feasible entry on the CWGC Roll of Honour, I rang CWGC and had quite an intyeresting conversation.

The lady said that there would be a choice for any war casualties (or their families at least), as to whether they were buried where they fell or were returned home when it was feasible.  I can't remember the details, but it seemed to apply to Irish dying of wounds in England, so presumably the other way round from Cobh to England.

We didn't discuss who paid or whether it was only for the military.

Another thought.  A couple of times recently I've had conversations about funerals which took place considerably later and WW!, and basically it was another world. 

For most people, they had to get the deceased from where they died to the burial site, themselves, by carrrying, train etc.  So if there was a long journey, they simply travelled with the deceased.

No niceties or fancy arrangements and privacy.  So presumably if there were family coming back to Britain, the cost would be no more than the cost of their own fare.

 A daunting thought, but in keeping with most of WW1 I guess.

Best wishes

Emms

[uk2003]

Hi

I have just emailed Eric Sauder the author of "R.M.S. Lusitania: The Ship and Her Record"
Lets see if we get a reply, it's just another direction to check

Dave/Barbara

I cannot see a Gerda Welsh in the BMD index for the 2nd June 1961 (what a sad story) - but did find 2 Gertrude Walsh 1 - in Hasligden and the other in Southport 

Emms

No burial of a Williams after 8th May 1915

I am starting to suspect they were survivors who died years later, but not giving up just yet.

Ken

[emmsthheight]

Hi

Sounds like some interesting stuff.

I can't wait for the reply!

Yes, if it were the Williams, it would be the two Johns whenever they died, possibly years later, but they would be from a family who perished because of the little children and the wife who died in the sinking.

I'll look forward to you reply though.

Good night

Emms

[uk2003]

I've had that reply from the Lustiania historian with a possible target person

Hi Ken,
 
Thanks for your e-mail.  Interesting project you're working on and one of particular interest to me because one of my research in finding graves of Lusitania victims and survivors. 
 
I looked through my cemetery list, and I didn't see anything for Philips Park, but I did find a man by the name of George Arthur Gilpin, who I have down as being buried in Manchester but with no cemetery listed.  I wonder if that 's who it might be?  He was lost, and his body was recovered.
 
I hope this helps, and if there is anything else I can do, please let me know.  I'd also like to know if you have found or are looking for other Lustiania graves.
 
Regards,
 
Eric Sauder


www.northatlanticrun.com

[uk2003]

According to the passenger list

GILPIN, Mr. George Arthur, age 47, British, London, England, Saloon/1st class passenger

Question

If someone dies at sea how is the death recorded?

The BMD index shows nothing for this person
 

[emmsthheight]

Hi Ken

this looks facinating!

Have you tried the deaths at Sea part of the GRO Index.  Don't think it's on Ancestry, but it's in a separate part at the end if the fiche index.  In our library it occupeis four boxes of fiche along with military bmd, consular bmd, events in the air etc.

Also, I think it's on Findmypast.com.  Sopme one might have that.

I was going to say it would be on the maifest, but of course that's not much use here!!

Actually, is he on the CWGC list?  My James Hoey on the Lusitania is. 

Just some ideas.

Thank you again for my fantastic photo's of Moston.

Emms