Author Topic: Can't find my ancestors!!  (Read 14379 times)

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Can't find my ancestors!!
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 04 May 08 20:46 BST (UK) »
Hi Nick

If you have a look at one of the children's birth certs (for James McGranathan and Jane Brooks) from the mid 1860s onwards, the register entry should include the date and place of parents marriage which would let you confirm that likely 1854 marriage entry you have found in New Monkland. This information was introduced on to Scottish birth certs around this time.

Regards.

Monica  :)
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline nick92

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Re: Can't find my ancestors!!
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 04 May 08 22:04 BST (UK) »
Hi Monica,

Thanks for that information, I'll try and get one as soon as possible, and check.  :D

Offline tidybooks

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Re: Can't find my ancestors!!
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 04 May 08 22:52 BST (UK) »
Hi Nick92,



* 1881 Census :
Given name :      Edward               Jane      Jane          Sarah      Walter         John
Surname :          McGranthin   McGranthin   McGranthin   McGranthin     McGranthin   Sutherland
Relation to head :     Son           Head         Daughter          Daughter                Son       Grandson
Condition :            N/A      Married            Unmarried          N/A            N/A            N/A
Age :                    9              42            20          11                 13          5 month
Sex :                    M               F              F             F              M           M
Occupation :        Scholar     Mill Worker      Mill Worker           Scholar            Paper Maker          
Birthplace :        Linlithgow       Glasgow         Shotts         Shotts         Glasgow         Milngavie
       
* 1891 Census :
Given name :      Jane                       Edward          John
Surname :      McGranthan            McGranthan       Brooks
Relation to head :   Head                 Son       Grandson
Condition :      
Age :                  33                   19         10
Sex :                   F                     M            M
Occupation :Formerly Paper Mill Worker Paper Mill Worker  Scholar
Birthplace :        Glasgow             Linlithgow     Milngavie

This census is wrong! Jane McGranthan was my great great grandmother and the Edward listed as her son was her brother, just have to look at where he was born and when and it is exactly the same as his brother.
The John Brooks isn’t her grandson, because the ages doesn’t correspond and at that time Jane just had her first child, so she couldn’t be grandmother yet!
I don’t know how come they are all living in the same house, where are the parents of Jane & Edward ?
Who is John Brooks ? Strangly his age, place of birth and name are the same as the John Sutherland in the 1881 census !!! i wonder if it isn't the same child  ???

I’ve give you all the main informations I’ve got, I hope you understand everything I gave you!

Thank you!

Best Regards.

Nick.


I think you may have to consider that the Jane McGranthin in the 1891 may in fact be the mother jane McGranthin and her age has been mistranscribed as 33 instead of 53. Given that the grandson's name is Brooks, I think that it is not Jane the sister but the mother. Anyway keep an open mind until you get other documentary proof. Good luck with your searches.

Tom
Scotland - Buchanan, Thomson, Pat(t)erson, Stewart, Ritchie, Tracey
Ireland - Tracey, Conroy, Pat(t)erson.

Offline JAP

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Re: Can't find my ancestors!!
« Reply #12 on: Monday 05 May 08 05:32 BST (UK) »
Hello again Nick,

Thank you for posting all that information.

1. I agree with you that the 1854 entry - from the Old Parish Register of the established Church of Scotland in New Monkland, Lanarkshire - for a marriage between Jane BROOKS and James MIGRANSCHER is surely yours.

As Monica has suggested, if you download a birth certificate from ScotlandsPeople for one of the younger children, it should give the date and place of the parents’ marriage (which would presumably confirm or disprove that the record is your people).
The ‘What’s in the Database’ section of the ScotlandsPeople site indicates what details are given on a Statutory Register birth certificate; to quote from the SP site:
"Couple: date and place of marriage – 1855, then 1861 to date".

You might also wish to download from SP the OPR entry for the 1854 marriage to see whether James’s surname is just a transcription error.

2. I definitely agree with Tom that the age given for Jane (BROOKS) ‘MCGRANTHIN’ in the 1891 census – 33 – is just an error (probably a transcription error) for 53.  That is, she is Edward’s mother and the grandmother of young John.  Note also that her birthplace is given as Glasgow (as it always is for Jane snr) whereas Jane jnr was born in Shotts.

3. Jane and Jean are interchangeable and are even combined in the IGI i.e. a search for a Jane will bring up all those named Jean as well.  And yes, at times – though less commonly in my own experience – a Jane/Jean will be recorded as Janet.  Also note that a very common alternate in Scotland for Janet is Jessie – so you will need to consider that as well in your searches for Jane (BROOKS) MCGRANNATHAN prior to her marriage, and in your searches for her parents.

4. It does rather look as though grandson John SUTHERLAND and grandson John BROOKS are one and the same person  :)  I guess you could search on SP for his birth certificate (under either name - and also, in case he was illegitimate, under MCGRANNATHAN or variant) and download it to see if it gives any clues.

5.
My Irish ancestors came from Northern Ireland, so I guess they were Protestant, that would explain that I don’t have problems finding them in the Scottish records!

Sorry, but no, it wouldn't!

The reason you have found all the births of the MCGRANNATHAN children is because they were born after 1855 and thus they were registered in the civil Statutory Register which commenced in 1855 (it's nothing to do with their religion).

The reason you have found the likely marriage of James & Jane is not simply because it was recorded in a Protestant (in the general sense) Register but because the marriage was entered into one quite specific Protestant church register; namely into an OPR (Old Parish/Parochial Register) of the established Church of Scotland.

I'm happy to expand further but hope you don't mind if I suggest that you first re-read my earlier post (reply #6) and look at the link which I gave (the established Church of Scotland is represented by the straight line at the far left of the diagram on that site).

I am stressing this because it is such a very important point in relation to your search for a baptism for Jane BROOKS, and in your search for her parents.

Best of luck,

JAP


Offline dunlinds

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Re: Can't find my ancestors!!
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 01 January 09 18:01 GMT (UK) »
Nick,
I am a direct descendant of Jane Brooks and James McGranthin.

I have a copy of an OLD PAROCHIAL REGISTER for the parish of New Monkland showing the Proclamation of the Banns for the marriage of these two. (I have tried to attach a copy for you but I think it might be too large.)

The date is MAY 1854.

This predates the modern registration of marriages and that's why you can find no trace of a normal certificate.

Also, James' name is McGranachan on this list.

And if you google for Migranscher you should find a reference to it on the Mormon database. The original is rather illegible and has been transcribed incorrectly.

I am also having trouble with finding out more about Jane and James' parents. Because of the Irish naming conventions I am pretty sure that James' father would be called John and his mother, Mary. But the surname is a problem and can be spelt in a number of ways. This far back, though, I would expect it to be the McGranachan or McGranaghan version.

Would be happy to discuss the family in more detail. You are the first other McGranachan/ McGranthin questor I have come across!!



Offline nick92

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Re: Can't find my ancestors!!
« Reply #14 on: Friday 02 January 09 02:27 GMT (UK) »
Hi dunlinds!

Thanks for contacting me, I was trying to send you my email address via Personal Messages but it doesnt work, so could you send me yours, please.

Thanks.

Talk to you soon I hope,

Nick.

Offline dunlinds

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Re: Can't find my ancestors!!
« Reply #15 on: Friday 02 January 09 10:55 GMT (UK) »
Nick, please see copy from PM rules below.

"New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.

If you are sending PMs to new members who have less than three posts you will receive an error message, that your limit, or allowed number has been reached. (note that it says your limit, although it actually refers to the recipient.)

Attachments are not allowed on PMs"

I have only made the one posting to you. This will be my second.

So I have to do another before you can contact me using personal messages.
I'll do another dummy one then hopefully we can communicate!


Offline dunlinds

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Re: Can't find my ancestors!!
« Reply #16 on: Friday 02 January 09 10:56 GMT (UK) »
THIRD POSTING!!

And hopefully my pass to Personal Messaging!

Would you please try to contact me again. Fingers crossed.

D

Offline dusto

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Re: Can't find my ancestors!!
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 19 February 12 18:37 GMT (UK) »
Hello everyone. I'm very invested in this tread. My last name is 'McGrannathan' and iv been trying to build a family tree on ancestry.com to follow my last name. as far as I know I'm the only McGrannathan on earth? but all I could reach was my great grandfather Edward McGrannathan who was born 1872 and immigrated to canada from Glasgow, Scotland. If anyone has any information or a way I could find out more please contact me.. Thanks :)