Can't find my ancestors!!

[nick92]

Hello,

I'm having problems with my ancestors on my great grandmother's side!
She was born into a family of mainly Irish-scots.

But my interest now it is not her Irish ancestors, it is her Scottish ancestors.
Her grandmother Jane Brooks was born c. 1838 in Glasgow (as it says on a census record but I know that the place of birth in census records aren't always right, but she was born for sure in Scotland, and must be born in the area of Glasgow, North Lanarkshire, Dunbartonshire, Ayrshire or even Renfrew and all around there!)
She was the daughter of Walter Brooks & Janet Scott.

My problem it is that I can't find the mariage of Walter Brooks & Janet Scott, just like if it didn't exist (anymore)!
I've search for the mariage of Walter Brooks in Scotland, but nobody of this name married to a Janet Scott and the same for the opposite.

So I've started searching in the history of Scotland, and saw that Scottish from the Isles and Highlands when going to the Lowlands anglicised their surname or even changed them!
Did this still happened in the beginning of the 19th century ?
Could that be the case for my ancestor, Walter Brooks ?

I first started the topic about her Irish ancestor because I had problems finding the date and place of birth of all the children of Jane Brooks and her husband, James MacGrannathan, and finally I've seen that they were almost all born with different spelling of the name such as McGranathan, McGranithan, McGranathin, etc..., and even without the 'Mc' for one of their daughter which I think is quite strange that only for her the 'Mc' was took off and then put back on for the other children after her!
But about the different spelling of surnames, I thought Brooks would have been spelled differently or even Scott, but no I've tried all of the possibles variations spelling of these surnames as for as I know 

Please can anybody help me!!!
Thank you! 

Nick.

[tidybooks]

Hi Nick,

You may have problems, would the family be Church of Scotland, if so, there maybe a chance but the records pre-1855 were Old Parish records and mainly Church of Scotland.

So maybe that is why you cannot find them.

Tom

[hume]

Hi Nick,

Could you tell us where you got Jane's parents' names? Was it from a marriage or death certificate? If so, the latter can often be unreliable for names, mostly depending on the person registering the death.

The closest I could find is a Walter Brook marrying a Janet Ross in 1838 in Glasgow. They later had a daughter Annabella in 1839.

I also checked the 1841 census for Scotland. One entry caught my eye - a Brock family in Hamilton, Lanarkshire, headed by John, a grocer and spirit dealer. There's a Jane, aged 1 (which may match with your's) and a Walter Scott, also a grocer & spirit dealer. I'm not sure if that's of any significance or not.

Regards,
hume24

[nick92]

Hello,

I don’t know to which she belonged, but on her granddaughter’s mariage certificate, it is said that she married into the United Free Church of Scotland, and the Irish in my great grandmother’s family came from Northern Ireland.


I’ve got Jane’s parents on her death certificate. She died in 1902, in Glasgow, widow of James McGranthin, Labourer, (d. 1894, Glasgow) and was the daughter of Walter Brook, a Hand Loom Weaver, (deceased) & Janet Scott (deceased).
The Informant of the death was her daughter, Mary Miller (born McGrannathan, in 1864).

I don’t think that the Walter Brook & Janet Ross are her parents because I can’t find any birth of a Jane Brook to these two parents.

On the other hand, if what you are saying is right about the uncorrect informations that I could find in death certificate, my Jane Brook could be, Jean Brock born in 1835 in Glasgow to Walter Brock & Janet Mitchell.

On the 1841 census for Scotland that you’ve found, what caught my eye it is that there is a Walter Scott and that he was a spirit dealer, and Jane Brook’s son, Walter McGranathan on a census, it says that he is a Spirit Salesman!
And this trade of spirit might came from a family member of Walter McGranathan!

So I think there might be a connection with my Brooks, but which one ?
What’s the connection of Walter & Jane to the head, John, in the census record that you found ?

Thank you,
Regards,

Nick.

[hume]

Hi again Nick,

As it's the 1841 census, no relationships show in the household. However, it looks likely that young Jane is a daughter of John. Walter may only be a lodger. The entry is available to view on FreeCen, by searching for Jane BROCK, age 1, in Lanarkshire.

I'm not sure if this is your family, but I thought the names used were interesting.

hume24

[sancti]

Perhaps they married outside Scotland

I couldn't find a marriage for Jane Brooks to James McGranthin either

[JAP]

Hello Nick,

PRE-1855 RECORDS IN SCOTLAND
Your main problem is that you are almost certainly searching for events prior to the start of Statutory Registration in Scotland - it began there in 1855.

So it may well be (I'm sorry to say) that you will be unable to find any record of the birth/baptism of Jane (BROOKS) MCGRANNATHAN, nor of Jane's marriage to James.

This might be because Jane wasn't baptized at all, or that she was baptized in a church the records of which have not been indexed in the IGI, or have not survived, etc, etc.
Similarly for the marriage ... 

Pre-1855, the main records will be found on ScotlandsPeople and/or in the IGI.  Pre-1855, SP only has records from the Old Parish Registers i.e. only records from the established presbyterian Church of Scotland - it does not have records from other churches.

Extracted Scottish records in the IGI are mostly from the OPRs though there are some records from other churches.

There were many breakaway presbyterian groups from the established Church of Scotland and these groups had many many members.  An interesting diagram and explanation can be found at:
http://website.lineone.net/~davghalgh/churchhistory.html

RECORDS OF JAMES MCGRANNATHAN & JANE BROOKS
Perhaps you could let us know all the information (records, censuses, etc) you have about the family?

On the IGI I found the following children of James MCGRANNATHAN & Jane BROOKS (all from the Statutory Registers):
Mary b 1856, Rothesay Bute (spelled in the IGI with a space after the MC)
John b 1858, Shotts Lanarkshire
Jane b 1860, Shotts Lanarkshire (without the MC)
Sarah b 1863, Penicuik Midlothian
Mary b 1864, Penicuik Midlothian
James b 1865, Penicuik Midlothian
Walter William b 1867, Shotts (also Calton) Lanarkshire
Sarah b 1870 Shotts Lanarkshire
Edward b 1872 Linlithgow West Lothian (Jane's surname given as GROCKS)

So this certainly suggests that James & Jane were married pre-1855.  They might also have had children pre-1855 who did not survive - only Mary, John & Jane are in the 1861 census.

In 1861, the family was in Denny, Stirlingshire - James, a labourer, b Ireland; Jean (this name is interchangeable with Jane) b Glasgow ca 1836; and children Mary 5, John 3, Jane 1.

In 1901, the widowed Jane, a retired paper finisher b Glasgow ca 1838, was in Govan with son Edward.

JANE BROOKS
As has been pointed out, details on death certificates are often unreliable.  They are given at a time of stress and, in any case, Mary might well not have correctly remembered the given names of her grandparents and maiden surname of her grandmother ...

And, by the 1851 census, Jane might well have have been working away from home ...

Sorry to be so pessimistic.

JAP
PS: Have you read Boongie Pam's post (stickied near the top of the Scotland-General board) on "Where to start with Scottish research".      

[JAP]

The 1841 census entry in Hamilton with a 1yo Jane BROCK probably needs to be ruled out ...

There's also a Helen BROCK 5 and a Margaret BROCK 3.  From the IGI this family looks like:
Parents John BROCK & Margaret KING who married in 1834 in Hamilton, baptisms all in Hamilton:
Helen bap 1836
Margaret Davidson bap 1838
Jane King bap 1840

JAP

[nick92]

Hello Jap,

You might be right, but about James McGranathan & Jane Brooks mariage, I found some time ago a mariage between Jane Brooks & James Migranscher, in 1854, in New Monkland or Airdrie!
I think that’s my ancestors, because the dates and place corresponds and the two surnames McGranathan & Migranscher are not that  different! The “Mc” became “Mi”, the “Gran” stayed the same, and the “-athan” became “-scher”. I don’t know how come it changed, but everything is possible!

My Irish ancestors came from Northern Ireland, so I guess they were Protestant, that would explain that I don’t have problems finding them in the Scottish records!

By the way, Jane Brooks could have been born Jean or even Janet! I think you were aware about that, but in case you didn't know. 

Of course I can give you all I have on the Family.

* Death certificate of James McGranathan :

James McGranathan, stocker, married to Jane Brooks, died on November 11, 1894 at the Royal Infirmary in Glasgow, his usual residence was 12, Strachebede (not sure if it is exactly was it is written) Street.
He died at the age of 60 years old. Parents were John McGranathan (deceased) , General Labourer & MaryAnn McKay (deceased). The informant of the death was James McGranathan, his son.

* Death certificate of Jane Brooks :

Jane McGranthin, widow of James McGranthin, Labourer, died on June 23, 1902 in Glasgow at 250, Humleddem (not sure) Drive.
She died at the age of 64 years old. Parents were Walter Brooks (deceased) , Hand Loom Weaver, & Janet Scott (deceased). The informant of the death was Mary Miller, daughter, present.

* 1871 Census :
Given name :         James         Janet      Mary      John      Janet           James      Walter      Sarah      
Surname   :         McGrannathan           "                "           "              "                   "                   "                   "
Relation to head :     Head            Wife        Daughter        Son      Daughter         Son        Daughter     Daughter
Condition :           Married           Married         Unmarried      
Age :                   45               34          15                13                  11                  6            3                1
Sex :                    M                 F             F       M          F                   M             M            F
Occupation :        Fireman                           Mill Worker   Mill Worker    Scholar                             
Birthplace :          Ireland           Glasgow         Rothesay         Shotts        Shotts           Penicuik      Glasgow      Shotts


* 1881 Census :
Given name :      Edward               Jane      Jane          Sarah      Walter         John
Surname :          McGranthin   McGranthin   McGranthin   McGranthin     McGranthin   Sutherland
Relation to head :     Son           Head         Daughter          Daughter                Son       Grandson
Condition :            N/A      Married            Unmarried          N/A            N/A            N/A
Age :                    9              42            20          11                 13          5 month
Sex :                    M               F              F             F              M           M
Occupation :        Scholar     Mill Worker      Mill Worker           Scholar            Paper Maker          
Birthplace :        Linlithgow       Glasgow         Shotts         Shotts         Glasgow         Milngavie


* 1891 Census :
Given name :        James
Surname :      McGranathan
Relation to head :    Board
Condition :          Married
Age :                   56
Sex :                    M
Occupation :     Fireman Stationary (it says he was employed by “Boiler”)
Birthplace :          Ireland


* 1891 Census :
Given name :      Jane                       Edward          John
Surname :      McGranthan            McGranthan       Brooks
Relation to head :   Head                 Son       Grandson
Condition :      
Age :                  33                   19         10
Sex :                   F                     M            M
Occupation :Formerly Paper Mill Worker Paper Mill Worker  Scholar
Birthplace :        Glasgow             Linlithgow     Milngavie

This census is wrong! Jane McGranthan was my great great grandmother and the Edward listed as her son was her brother, just have to look at where he was born and when and it is exactly the same as his brother.
The John Brooks isn’t her grandson, because the ages doesn’t correspond and at that time Jane just had her first child, so she couldn’t be grandmother yet!
I don’t know how come they are all living in the same house, where are the parents of Jane & Edward ?
Who is John Brooks ? Strangly his age, place of birth and name are the same as the John Sutherland in the 1881 census !!! i wonder if it isn't the same child 

I’ve give you all the main informations I’ve got, I hope you understand everything I gave you!

Thank you!

Best Regards.

Nick.