Parish Registers - SCOTT - Baptism

[MonicaL]

Might be worthwhile searching for Scott/Minister in the censuses  What age would you estimate him to be from the painting (not that I am any good at estimating people's ages!). I understand Agnes died but have you managed to track Thomas father before or after?

Go to work now or you'll be late...catch up later!

[melonsmum]

I couldn't resist another wee look before I left.  I tracked this family from 1851 to 1881 on the Scottish Census.  I couldn't find them on the 1841.  On the 1851, Thomas's Grandmother was listed as: Widow of (looks like Mender) Minister of Roley Church. On the 1861 she is Clergymans Widow.

I forgot to mention before that my G Grandfather, Thomas Beattie Scott worked in the Linen Industry for the Ulster Flax & Spinning Company.  I have already looked at their records (which are limited).  I have just had a thought.  I wonder did that company have any offices in Scotland............  Another avenue to go down.

Well I really must go to work now.

I'll catch up later.

Thanks

Melonsmum

[MonicaL]

I've just been looking at the family in 1861. From what you have said re GGG grandfather, this family specially with father Thomas's occupation would be a perfect fit 

[MonicaL]

I thought I would put down here the census entries for the family you have. Like you, I cannot find them on the 1841 census. I also can't see them in the 1881 census (did you say you had this entry or did you lose them after 1871?)

1851:
Allison Scott 65, Widow Of Mender (Minister) Of Roley Church
Robert Scott    10, grandson, orphan, b. Glasgow
Thomas Scott    26, Draper's Assistant, b. Dalkeith Midlothian
Agnes Scott    24, wife, b. Glasgow
Allison Isabella Scott    5 (months?), b. Glasgow
Sarah Morgan    20, lodger
William Morgan    23, lodger
Margaret Obrian 17, servant

Address:180 Hope St, Glasgow Barony

1861:
Thomas Scott 36, Linen Drapery Salesman, b. Edinburgh
Agnes Scott 34, b. Glasgow
Alison J Scott    10
Jane H Scott    8
Agnes G Scott    6
Isabella Scott    4
Allison Scott    75
Elizabeth Finello 18, servant

Address: 247 Eglinton St, Tradeston, Glasgow Govan

1871:
Thomas Scott 46, Warehouseman Simon & Cotton, b. Edinburgh
Jane H Scott 18
Agnes G Scott 16
Isabella Scott 14
Thomas Scott 5
Charles Scott 14, nephew, b. Calluka - I wonder where this is supposed to be?!
Alison Scott 85, mother, b. Dalkeith
Ellen Cameron 27, servant

Address: 6 Queen's Square, Park, Govan

I thought maybe by 1881 father Thomas may have remarried but can't see the family then to confirm.

[MonicaL]

Melonsmum, I'm sure you have this already but I am including it firstly to keep it all together (and stop me having to refer back to the different sources) and more importantly, maybe someone might also recognise the names from their own lines 

Thomas Scott and Agnes Norval banns/marriage show in Glasgow in 1848. The children showing to them on the OPRs and official record:

1. ALLISON ISABELLA SCOTT Born 09 OCT 1850 Barony, Lanark
2. JANE HELEN SCOTT Born 03 FEB 1853/ Christening: 17 APR 1853 Gorbals, Lanark
3. AGNES GRACE SCOTT  Born 29 JAN 1855 Glasgow, Lanark
4. ISABELLA SCOTT Born 27 JAN 1857 Tradeston, Glasgow, Lanark
5. THOMAS SCOTT Born 19 OCT 1865 Govan, Lanark

In respect of Thomas b. 1865 I have no idea why the image is not available on SP. One reason this could happen is down to illegibility (the register entry couldn't be imaged). It might be worthwhile asking SP the question as to why it's on order before ordering. First impression would be that the entry won't include a middle name as it doesn't show on the IGI entry, but you never know.

The 1855 birth for Agnes Grace, on the first year of official registration in Scotland will give you a wealth of additional info. For one year only, the BMD entries ran over two pages of the register and for birth certs will include date and marriage of parents, how long they had lived at their usual residence and where they were born. Also, how many children they had (alive or deceased) and sex of children.

Agnes Norval you say died some days after Thomas's birth. Have you viewed her DC? This looks a possible birth entry for her which you should be able to verify from the parent details on her death cert:

26 JAN 1827 Glasgow, Lanark to parents John Norval and Jean Baird.

[MonicaL]

In respect of the mother of Thomas Snr., Alison Shiels. This looks to be her birth entry:

19 MAR 1786 Dalkeith, Midlothian, Scotland to parents Archibald Shiels and Isabella Shiells

She married JAMES SCOTT, a United Presbyterian Minister on 24 MAR 1806 Dalkeith, Midlothian. For the family of a minister, goodness knows what they did for their children's birth and christening entries - I can't find any! Thomas b. 1825c would probably have been one of their last children given the date of the marriage.

Alison was a widow by 1851 and we can't find them in 1841, so James Scott remains a mystery...for now  These are the only entries on the Wills & Testaments with references to church men:

Reverend James Scott, 28/09/1825, occupation - Minister of Benholm in the County of Kincardine. Type - Inventory at Stonehaven Sheriff Court   

James Scott,09/12/1830, occupation - Rev, minister of Relief Congregation Jedburgh at Jedburgh Sheriff Court

It would be good to establish where exactly was the Roley Church, it screams of a mistranscription of the original.

 If Thomas Snr. and Junior left for Ireland after the 1871 census (given we can't find either as yet in 1881), it will be hard to verify further any Scottish links. Given Thomas Snr.'s age, if he did move to Ireland there is always the issue as to whether he made it up to the 1901 census to be able to check for him.

There are no deaths for Thomas Snr. in Scotland between 1871-81.

Monica

[MonicaL]

James Scott was Minister of Relief Church not Roley.....oh the joy of mis-transcriptions....

Scottish Ministers are not something I have researched but you may want to look at this site http://www.dwalker.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Map.htm 

From the (very) little I know about this, the Fasti Ecclesiae Scoticanae is a comprehensive listing of Scottish Ministers from the Reformation to the 20th Century. I believe that there are volumes by area and these are often held at local libraries. You might want to check what is available to you over in Ireland (the Irish had their own ministers' lists).

Monica

[melonsmum]

Wow Monica, I am overwhelmed by the help you are giving me on this..... Thank you so much!

I have just had a look on Scotlands People and found a will for Alison Scott nee Shiels so I'm going to purchase it!

Here are the details of the 1881 Census:-

Thomas SCOTT, 56, b. Edinburgh, Warehouseman, (Soft Goods)
Allison I SCOTT, 30, b. Glasgow
Helen I SCOTT, 28, b. Glasgow
Agnes G SCOTT, 26, b. Glasgow
Isabel SCOTT, 24, b. Glasgow
Thomas SCOTT, 15, b. Glasgow
Galbella SHIELS, 84, Aunt, b. Dalkieth, Annuitant
Bella McMILLAN, 24, Servant, b. Lochmaddy Inverness

I wonder what happened to Alison on this Census.  According to the Wills she died in 1886.

I had a look at that Minister website.  I think that James may have been Ordained 20 years or so before he died.  So he probably had another occupation before that.  Interestingly, On the Banns for Thomas & Agnes's marriage it says that he is a Manufacturer.  Maybe he took over his fathers business when he became a minister.

I'll go and have a wee look at that will.......

Melonsmum

[melonsmum]

I'm gutted...... Wrong Alison Scott!!

I should have checked the death BEFORE I purchased the will!  Lesson learnt!

Here is Alisons Death information:-

Alison SCOTT, Widow of James SCOTT, United Presbyterian Minister, died 8th August 1871, aged 85.  (Now I know where she was on the 1881 census!)

Address:  6 Queens Square, Regent Park, Govan Parish.

Her parents were:-  Archibald Shiels Quarryman (?) Master
                              Isabella Shiels, nee Sheils

I'm just going to lick my wounds and plan the next move.....  Any ideas?

Melonsmum