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[Ruskie]

.. and lucky last ...

Letter from Henry Jordan says Robt will not be able to satisy the Colonial Govt that is is just a loan – he says Robt will charge interest – and that Robt needs a legally drawn agreement, and even then it would not be approved. He explains what he land order scheme is about,  the 3 types of immigrants (anyone can come if they pay own fare, but free and assisted must have medical and other suitability tests before being allowed to emigrate)  – he says rules are made and unless they are fully carried out are useless. He says their arrangements meet their requirements and they do not need to be supplemented by any other plan – he tells Robert to cancel his arrangements for assisting others - says Robert and his family will get their land orders and (the following is underlined) “ if you bring others out you cannot claim land order for them and you would be introducing persons without any control or guarantee of their fitness”.

Janet, I don’t know how interested you are in this correspondence, but there was too much to photocopy or take detailed notes. If you like, next time I go to the Archives I can try to put this onto a USB drive and send it to you via email. NB. I am technologically challenged, have never done this before, but hope someone in the archives will be able to assist.

The letters were a bit hard to follow (letters weren’t in order) but very interesting. Have posted these extracts on here because I thought others following this thread may be interested. It does give some insight into the characters of these people, their personalities, what drives them etc. Was Robert trying to pull a swifty, or was he being a good guy and trying to help his countrymen and the Queensland Governement? Interesting to read both points of view.

 

[trish251]

Ruskie

Downloading the images is so very easy - you will wonder why you didn't do it before    You simply line up the image on screen as if you were going to print it & then open the scanner software - once the staff have shown you - you will fly - it is quick too 

The land grant letters sound so interesting to me - My folks paid their "benefactor" for land as part of their passage - and never got it as the govt said it had not offered same. There was quite a problem in the early days - if folks paid their own fare it was thought they were "rich" and could afford to pay for their land - but if they paid their own fare, they usually didn't have money left for land.

Robts ideas do sound a little sus! Lots of folks (often the Scots) came up with many wild ideas for immigration - they were seriously keen on populating Australia with protestants.

Trish

[Ruskie]

I'm sure you're right about downloading images Trish. There look to be about 4 film viewers set up with PC's ready to go. I'm quite keen to try it actually  .

Yes, the land orders do look interesting. A useful resource I wasn't aware of.

Robert does appear to have a few land orders (but as I said I ran out of time before I could investigate further) - probably just for family members. There definitely aren't 300 + for all the passengers aboard the Helenslee. There must have been many scams around to rip off illiterate immigrants.

Be interesting to find out more about the land given to immigrants, how much they got, where it was etc. I believe there were conditions attached, eg you had to clear the land for farming.

[trish251]

The ones on the RHS as you walk into the viewer room are set for scanning - I was annoyed last time I went  because I didn't know they had any & I didn't have my memory stick with me! I've been using them at the state library, so much quicker than transcribing - and it's free - no printing costs   

I haven't looked at many land records - but I know of one in NSW which included the immigation details of my ggg grandfather - tis the only place we found as to when he arrived and the name of the ship - so they can be very useful

Trish

[Ruskie]

They're quite new I think Trish. There are a lot of changes going on at the Archives at the moment - the new building looks complete and the landscapers have been planting away (loads of grass which seems odd, what with the bushy setting and the drought)- I would have thought indigenous plants would have suited better.  . )

Even the reception area has had an unnecessary makeover. Big spends ... I must have a look at their website to see what they're going to fill the new building with.

[trish251]

I always remember when we got the new Indooropilly library. Great place - well decorated - the books fitted in the back corner - they didn't buy anything new to put in same. they have since given part of it away to use as the Council enquiry/payment centre   

It's hard to imagine the archives reception area needed a makeover - I thought the State govt was supposedly spending all it's money on hospitals    It would be lovely if they used some money for scanning & making more information easily available. I can live in hope!

Trish

[fridayjan]

Ruskie,

Thank you for all this - hmmmm - it does sound a little dubious doesn't it, but I don't suppose we'll ever know what his intentions were.  I'm also technically challenged, but it would be interesting to read the letters if it's as easy as it sounds to copy them on to a stick thingy, but please don't bother if it takes up a lot of time.  I feel that I should try and find a book to read about emigrants to Australia - I've read the Secret River but that was more about convicts than people who paid to go.

I think I said earlier that I've had a contact through Genes from one of Robert's descendents - only a brief contact so far, but maybe she will know some more about the family - I hope to hear from her again after the weekend and have told her about this thread.

With regard to the possible marriage of Francis Marsh to Mary Anna - I think I must have put two and two together from one of the Electoral Rolls where she appears at the same address as Mary Anna Marsh - I'll have another look.  Also, I think the Wills for James Harvey etc. may be the children of Matthew McGavin rather than Robert but I'll check in the morning.

Thanks again,

Janet

[Ruskie]

You're right Trish - the reception area seemed all new and clean before the makeover  . They've painted, "resurfaced" the reception desk, put in fancy new opaque windows with images on, plus backlit glass panels etc .... and they're only the few things I've noticed. I can only imagine what's gone on behind the scenes. I'd like to see a couple of new fiche readers and more than 2 sets of BMD fiche as well as reliable online resources. The readers are often occupied even when there aren't many researchers.

Janet, I'd love to try to get those images for you. I'll do so next time I'm at the archives. It should only take a minute or two. 

I'll be very interested to see if your Genes contact knows any more - please let us know what you find out.

Let me know what I've missed and I'll try again next time. In the meantime Karen may be able to fill in some of the BMD gaps if she gets to the Library.

[ewilkin]

Hello to Jan, Ruskie and Karenlee,
I have finally got some time to try and catch up on your huge amount of correspondence.      Just to tackle a few of your queries I've noticed.   There is a small book published by:     EILEEN B JOHNSON,   PO BOX 4185, TINANA. QLD.4650 AUSTRALIA.  the book is called "They Came Direct The Helenslee".
She has done a lot of research on the Helenslee as well as many other ships that came to Australia.  I can't remember how much a copy is but I think it was only about $20.   There are copies of all the letters between Robert McGavin and the relevant authorities as well as lots of other interesting details about the ship and its voyage.  Interesting details about how a number of ships arrived at this time and doubled the population of Rockhampton in a few weeks.  It was a very well run ship with few deaths etc and lots of church and sunday school.
So there could be some truth about populating QLD with prebyterians, as they were a very religious famly.   If you go to www.electricscotland and look up significant scots - William McGavin (Robert's Brother) it will show you how deeply involved they were.   William has huge memorial built to him as the quthor of the "The Protestant".  And very involved in the temperence movement.   Have also traced their name back to being one Robert McGavin as being one  of some of the "Coventanters" ( those who opposed the king to uphold scotish protestant church in 1600"s) - these were the guys who got hung drawn and quartered.
I recently went to Scotland to try and find more details and found the original family farm "Darnlaw Farm" near Cumnock where Robert was born.   I couldn't reconcile how seemingly ordinary tenant farmers had been so well educated and branched out so quickly into such seeminly educated positions in life.
Darnlaw Frm was part of Lord Auchinleck's Estate and the Lord was James Boswell who was the very famous author of Samuel Johnson's Biography and he allowed the boys to be educated with his children for a short time on the estate.   I met the current owners of the farm (and the took me on a tour of the area and the manor house that  still stands.   The farm is just as it was in Roberts time and has most of the original features on the outside - of course modernised inside.    I have some photos if anyone is interested.
I haven't consumed all your mail as yet but in answer to another question I noticed.    Robert died in Sydney of softening of the brain and is buried at Balmain - Matthew died in Sydney as well.  They didn't last too long after they got here.
If you not bored to death I have lots more on their history in Scotland,

Jan I am very interested in the Skelly history with St Vincent Island as this was one thread that I could remember hearing as a child that I had not been able to make a connection wikth and was beginning to think it was a legend so I'm very excited about this thread.
More later
Elizabeth