Opinion wanted, please

[Abiam2]

And I cannot find a marriage between Samuel Smith and Martha Smith!

[Ecneps]

And I cannot find a marriage between Samuel Smith and Martha Smith!

Don't think you need to.  I think the one you've found will probably be for Samuel son of John Smith, to Martha Bell.  Then maybe Samuel died and Martha remarried to Ed. Clarke, taking her & Sam's children with her.

Did you notice Ed Clark was a lodger with the Smiths in 1881? edit, yes I see you did!

will have another look.
Barbara

[Abiam2]

Hi Barbara,

I think you are right!  And there is a Samuel Smith died Sep. 1/4 1881 aged 24 poor soul.  And Martha (Bell) had 2 children and must have been expecting the third. 

So, (had the computer guy here sorting out my Outlook Express problems - stinking headache!) I think we are tallking about the brother Samuel marrying a Martha Bell (and him dying) and therefore HE is the connection with my tree!  Do tell me I've got that right!  So therefore Martha was only connected to my Grandmother by marriage?  Cannot get my head around this will have to go and lay down!!!

Thanks again, Barbara

[Ecneps]

That's how I see it, but I think you need a couple of birth and/or marriage certs to be sure.

And I'm looking for a marriage for William Marchmont/Mary Ann to see if that is the right Mary Ann

Here I think is young Martha later on:

1881  RG11/1199  Folio  66  Page  1
Martha is 19, servant to James, Earl of Normanton (ooh!)

1891 RG12/1688  Folio 142  Page 13
Martha is 28 and Ladies Maid in the Bishop of Exeter's household, Devon

1901 RG13/1482  Folio  103  Page 5
Martha is widowed with 2 children and would you believe called Webb, and keeper of a Coffee Tavern in Waresley Huntingdonshire


Barbara

[Abiam2]

Barbara,
Couldn't sort this out yesterday when I got back.  But I think I have it now!
Could you cast an eye over it for me and see what you think.

John Smith married Susan Ann Elwood 1852 Little Gransden
Children
Mary Ann 1855   Little Gransden
Samuel 1857    Little Gransden
Plus 4 children who died within their 1st year
Susan Smith died 1864 Little Gransden

Sarah Ann Webb married William Charles Clarke 1856 Abbotsley Hunts
Children
Elizabeth 1858 (died 1861)   Abbotsley Hunts
Edward 1861      Abbotsley Hunts
William died ?

John Smith married Sarah Ann Webb 1864 Caxton Cambs
Children all born in Little Gransden
Edward 1861 (Sarah & William)
Samuel 1857  (John & Susan)
Martha A 1863
Priscilla 1865 (my Grandmother)
Clara 1871
Elizabeth 1974
Walter 1776

Samuel Smith married Martha Bell (born 1860) 1877 Caxton Cams
Children
William John 1876    Caxton Cambs
Sarah Anne 1880   Caxton Cambs
Emily Mar ¼ 1882   Caxton Cambs
Samuel died Sep ¼ 1881

Edward Clarke was a lodger (actually the son of Sarah Anne and William Clark) with John and Sarah Smith in 1881 John's son Samuel (Mother Susan) married Martha Bell who then married Edward Clark of Abbotsley 1889 after 1st husband Samuel's death in 1881.
They moved to Maidenhead Berks and that is where I found them by accident in the 1891living at Norfolk Park Cottages Maidenhead.
So in answer to my original post Mary and Martha were not one and the same.
And Martha A  Bell/Smith  was the widow of my grandmothers half brother Samuel Smith!  Also Edward Clark son of Sarah Anne and William Clark married John Smith's son Samuel's widow Martha.
I think,  If you, Barbara or anyone else can see this I'd love to hear!
Thank you for your patience, Abiam

[Ecneps]

John married Susan Ann Webb in the Dec 1/4 1864.  The two surviving children from his first marriage were Mary A Smith aged 6 and Samuel Smith aged 4 according to the 1861 census and I think these children were taken on by Susan as step children. 

It mostly sounds right to me, but do be careful with your names, as above in your first posting, it was Sarah he married in 1864 and Sarah who was the stepmother! It mixed me up a bit to start with - Smith is bad enough without getting your Sarahs and Susans mixed up 

One thing puzzling me, and I admit I haven't looked up all the details, but if Sarah Ann Webb married William Charles Clarke in 1856, wouldn't she have been Sarah Ann Clarke when she married John Smith in 1864?  The marriage you mention for then shows John Smith marrying a Sarah Webb??

Barbara

[Abiam2]

Barbara,
I do apologise for muddling Susan and Sarah.

I've just looked up the 1871 census and Sarah and William's son is named as Edward Webb so it looks as though she chose to go back to her maiden name.  I would think if you are widowed you would normally marry again in that married name so why Sarah chose to be different I don't know.

I did follow through Martha Smith, daughter of John and Sarah, working with the up market households and she married a John Webb in June 1892.

Once again apologies for confusing you and many thanks for all your help,
Abiam

[Ecneps]

It would be interesting to get the marriage certificate, which you probably want as she is your gt.grandmother, then you would know for sure.  If you do, would you come back and post the details?

Happy hunting, Barbara 

[Abiam2]

Yes, I agree it would be interesting to know why.  When the coffers allow I will get the certificate and will certainly let you know,
Abiam