Anyone Looking For Cunningham And Swales In Yorks?

[origins]

Hi Johny,

I don't know much about the true romany gypsies, other people on this board do, maybe someone will answer that for you.   Certainly the Swales were a large travelling family.  They travelled from villages and markets selling their wares, earthenware, tin items, baskets, mats, glass ware, anything that people used I think. Also understand cattle and horse dealing.    I think somewhere on this board is mentioned about the Smiths,not sure whether your Smiths or not.


All the travelling families intermarried, marrying cousins through generations.  It's a huge puzzle to sort through.  Absolutely mind boggling.  Everyone is related in somewayto someone else.

Regards Val

[An65]

There are many different Smith gypsy lines, and the Whartons are also a gypsy family, so I hope that answers that question.

Re: Cousins - its a wonder we dont all have 12 fingers and six eyes, its true we intermarried loads. No one had a clue that it might cause problems genetically until comparatively recently, so to our olds, it was simply keeping their bloodlines pure.

Finally what is the difference between Gypsies and Travellers. Depends on your definition of Travellers.

Today (officially like) Travellers means Irish Travellers which is to say, travelling folks of Irish descent who have travelled Ireland for yonks and yonks.

Abt 20 years ago it meant New Age Travellers who were basically a bunch of hippies travelling abt in converted and often colourfully painted Buses and vans.

Gypsy- to the gypsies - means "a person of Romany heritage ie Anglo-Romani person (or English Romany) traveller. The name was given to the Romanies who entered England at any time during or after Henry VIII reign as it was thought they were Egyptians - and Gyptian became Gypsy, over time. However to everyone else Gypsy meant any wandering tramp/traveller/worker whether of true Romany Heritage or not.

Roma  - Legally this term is used for the recent influx of European Romany people. However, Roma is also the general European word for Gypsies including England, which confuses the issue even more

Hedge Mumper - the Gypsies term for what you and I would call - non gypsy travellers or tramps

Just to complicate things a bit, there are cases where Irish Traveller marries Romany Gypsy (Anglo Romanichal) and cases where Settled Gypsy people have found themselves unable to stick life in a house and gone back on the road as New Age Travellers (or simply - Travellers).

There came a point where "gypsy" became a term with negative connotations so much that even Romany Gypsies simply called themselves Travellers as they thought it was easier that way. Now the reverse is true.

Hope that answers your question

[Wortley79]

Hi,
not sure if Robert is related. My grandmother Mabel swales was born at Pickering, I have recieved information her father was William Swales and her mother was Margaret Adams. William swales dad was James Swales and his mother Mabel Busfield. Margaret Adams Mother is John Adams and mother is Christiana (maiden name not known). My Swales family are from Pickering and Kirby Moorside and where ever else they moved to,
Regards Janice

Hi Jan is your Margaret Adams born 1868, if so she is my great great grandfathers sister
gosh this is all amazing. i have Swales enter my Adams family on nearly every generation, i also have an ancestor marrying a Cunningham,

so if anyone on here has adams, preferably a descendent of Robert Adams born approx 1858 (give or take a couple of years) Easingwold, please get in touch I would love to see photos if anyone has any, i only have my great grandmother and one of her sister, so it would be nice.

[Wortley79]

Hi Johnnyrey,

Would be interested if anyone has the answer to your question.  Thomas Smith bn 1818 Falsgrave  married Mary Morrison 1828 Kirkbymoorside, their daughter Mary married John Adams 1856 Easingwold.   My gggrandmother was an Adams and I am told by a lady  who comes down the Adams line that she is gypsy and that all the Adams were gypsy.
Also Hannibal Swales was the brother of my ggggrandfather James Swales bn Kirkbymoorside.    Were they gypsy or travellers??

Val

Well, John Adams 1856 Easingwold is my great great grandfathers brother. All my adams were "Travellers" i was always told they were travellers, never gypsy.

What is your gggandmothers name? and who was her father?

I cannot get to the bottom of this gypsy/traveller meanings business, i dont believe that travellers were just the irish. my Adams, Wortley, and Fergusons were all "Travellers" 

[origins]

My great x 3 grandmother was Ann Adams bn Stillington 1838 d/o David Adams and Susannah Lowther. she married George  Harker.    James Swales amd Mabel Busfield were my great x 3 grandparents also through their son Mark.

John Adams bn 1822 married?? no marriage, Christiana Stephenson bn 1821 Guisborouigh,  d/o Alexander Stephenson and Catherine Hartley.    Somebody was queerying who she was.

I  too can't work out whether gypsy or traveller, but think mainly travellers, and what is meant by gypsy??

If anybody has photos from any of these families would be wonderful of they would post them.

Val

[Wortley79]

My 3x great grandparents were John Adams and Christiana Stephenson. Johns brother was your David. So I think we are both of the same generation.

Lou

[origins]

Getting my Harkers mixed up have modified my post - Ann married George Harker my 3 x greatgrandparents.    Their son James married Christiana Swales d/o Mark Swales and Elizabeth Stephenson.  So have the Adams Swales and Stephensons all travelling families.   

Wondering if anybody has info on Mabel Swales who married Hannibal Adams.  He was the son of Caleb Adams and Margaret Swales.

Val

[origins]

Hi everyone,


re Mary Swales born 1838 Kirkbymoorside , daughter of James Swales and Mabel Busfield.  Have made enquiries at Stocktonroots have been told that the Mary Swales that married John Bowman was not the daughter of James Swales, earthenware dealer.  Checked this out because I was going over my Tree.  1861 Mary is living with her parents and has a 6 month old son.  After that I can't find her.   Does anybody know what became of Mary as her son seems to have been brought up by James and Mabel.

Val

[originQuest]

My research shows that Mary Swales born 1840 in Stokesley to John and Lavinia Swales (nee Busfield) was the one who married John Bowman, in 1859 in Stockton.

They had two known sons; John born 1862 and Thomas born 1864, both born in Stockton-on-Tees, County Durham.

I am interested to find out more about other children to John and Lavinia Swales.  I know nothing for:

Vina, or Lavinia Swales, born 1837 (appears on 1841 Census so may not be a daughter)
Christiana Swales, bap. 2 Sep 1837 in Stokesley, Yorkshire
Louisa/Lavinia Swales, born 1847 in South Stockton, Yorkshire
Margret Swales, baptised 29th Aug 1847 in Thornaby, Yorkshire.

Peter