Death look-up pls - AUSTEN

[julied]

Hi.  Would someone be kind enough please to see if they can find the death record of a Mary Austen [nee Walker].  She was born 1797 Brenchley, Kent, married a Joseph Austen in Rolvenden 1816.  Her parents were Samuel Walker and Grace Swift. 
Cheers
Julie 

[toni*]

when in the lastest she appears i.e. on the census

before 1866 ages weren't listed in the index

[casalguidi]

I had a feeling that this might be her with her husband in 1851 at Rovenden http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,287996.0.html

1851 Rolvenden

Joseph AUSTEN head mar 56 carpenter b.Rolvenden
Mary wife 59 schoolmistress b.Tenterden
Frederick grandson 15 b.Rolvenden
James KADWELL lodger 12 b.Rolvenden

HO107/1620 folio 24 page 4

The reason I say this is because (as outlined on the other post) I could only see the one marriage Joseph AUSTEN to Mary in that area around that time.

Why do you think she was born in Brenchley Julie - it might help us to set some things straight?

I couldn't see them after 1851 in the census

Casalguidi

[julied]

Hi Casalguidi & Toni, sorry to be such a pain with this but I really do appreciate your help.  I'm only going on info I was given by other people so as you say that death date of Joseph snr in 1816 could very well be incorrect. 

The 1851 census record you've found has Joseph snr as a carpenter and Frederick as his grandson.  One bit of info which would perhaps clear things up is if I knew who Frederick's parents were.  The 1841 census also lists Joseph, carpenter age 35, Mary 30 and Frederick 5 [doesn't have Frederick's relationship to them though].

I have only one child for Joseph and Mary Walker - Joseph b 1816 who married Sophia Lewis in 1838.  They migrated  to Australia later that year with Sophia's son James Lewis.  I have their first child being born in NSW in 1839.  The NSW Bounty Immigrants List lists his occupation as a carpenter [same occupation as Joseph in the 1841 and 51 census if indeed it is his father]. 

These 2 census records in 1841 and 51 could be one of 2 things - either they are my lot or they are  parents of another  Joseph, carpenter b 1814 Rolvenden who is in the 1881 census.       

Oh the joys of genealogy!!

Cheers
Julie

[toni*]

Hi

looks like Frederick was born just before civil regsitration 
so no chance of a birth cert, best chnace would be an enrty in teh PR's for his bapt but without an exact pob  which PR do we  search ?
have you followed Frederick through the census to see if he is with any other relatives later in life?

[julied]

Hi Toni
Thanks for your message and help so far.
No I haven't tried to trace Frederick in later census records - I don't have access to them unfortunately.  I only have him with his grandparents in the 1841 and 51 records, nothing after that.  I've looked in 1881 but can't find him.
I guess the next step would be to find someone with access to 1861 and 71 and see if he's in them.
Cheers
Julie

[casalguidi]

I couldn't see Joseph, Mary & Frederick in any census later than 1851 when I looked before

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,287996.0.html

I'm only going on info I was given by other people so as you say that death date of Joseph snr in 1816 could very well be incorrect

The problem with using other's research as a base is that you have to be cautious as to what is correct.  If people are willing to share their resources ie. proof with you then that is fine but otherwise it needs to be treated with caution.  For instance, I have seen a number of postings/trees on the web for this family and one tree has a chap dying aged about 120, another has Joseph & Sophia listed as going to Australia in 1838 yet some of their children born in the 1840s in England etc. etc.. - just two instances of where something is clearly wrong in the research

One thing they tend to agree on is that Joseph AUSTEN died 1890 in the Grafton district of New South Wales.  If this is correct then his death certificate has his parents listed as Joseph and Sophia http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/search.htm

There is mention somewhere that Joseph is buried in a private grave still owned by the AUSTEN family - are there any other relatives buried there that may indicate others going out to Australia too

Some of the research I have seen on the web stops with the marriage of Joseph and Sophia (1838) which, I suspect, is because they are unsure of his origins.

As I mentioned before, there is only one Joseph AUSTEN marriage to a Mary around the time frame and in the area you are looking at ie. early 1800s and that is to Joseph AUSTEN and Mary WALKER in Tenterden.  What if they are the couple in the 1841 and 1851 census in Rolvenden and what if the younger Joseph in Rolvenden 1841 and 1851 is their son b1816

I would suggest asking your fellow researchers a few questions ie. how do they know that "your" Joseph was born in Rolvenden 1816 and how do they know that his parents were Joseph AUSTEN and Mary B WALKER and how do they know that this Mary WALKER was born in Brenchley and not Tenterden?  I do hope you can get some answers so we can try and help you sort some of this out.

Casalguidi

[casalguidi]

Frederick could well be Joseph Frederick Austen WATSON baptised Rolvenden son of Phoebe WATSON thus I would suggest that his father was probaby an AUSTEN and son of Joseph AUSTEN and Mary in Rolvenden  http://www.familysearch.org (select Record Search Pilot)

As I think I mentioned previously, there is a Mary WALKER baptised Tenterden about the same time Mary wife of Joseph AUSTEN (from the census in Rolvenden) would have been born.

Have you seen the original passenger list for the "James Pattison" 1838 which might tell where Joseph's parents are living or whether they are deceased?

Casalguidi

[Daisypetal]

Hi,

Do you have the marriage cert of Joseph and Sophia to confirm his father's name?

The only marriage I can see for Joseph to Sophia in 1838 is,

Joseph AUSTEN    Jun Q 1838    Tenterden    5    471 
Sophia BURT with same details.

I have checked the GRO images and there is no Sophia LEWIS with these details, but I do see the member submitted entries on the IGI have a marriage of Sophia LEWES to James BURT 1834, then call her Sophia LEWIS  on her marriage to Joseph AUSTEN


Regards,
Daisy