Kings Own Scottish Borderers, 25th regiment foot

[km1971]

Was his number in the 25th Foot 1712? If so I can tell you in qtr2 1850 he was in Bangalore, Madras. He was a Private then. If you say when he transferred to the 25th I can probably tell you more.

Ken

[rohanryan]

Thats right. John Ryan's number in the 25th was 1712.
Prior to joining the 25th, he was part of the 56th with number 1803. 

Unfortunately, I do not know when he joined the 25th. (I know it was before 2 Feb 1853. He was part of the 25th when he got married.)

3721 was his regimental number in the 74th. (He volunteered from the 25th Foot on 1 March 1855.)

[km1971]

I have found the following for him:

= Transferred from 56th Foot on 1st April 1842 to Depot of 25th at Gravesend. Given number 1712. On 21st April he sailed on the “Francis Smith” for India. Landed 8th August after 110 days at sea. While at sea pay for a Private was reduced to 6d a day as the regiment provided food.

= 9th August to 30th September 1842 – location unknown
= 31st October to 31st January 1843 - on detachment at Arcot
= 28th February – at Seringapatam 
= 31st March and throughout Q2 1843 he is a Private in Cannanore, Madras

- He was promoted Corporal on 1st February 1844 -

= In Q2 1844 he is a Corporal with the 25th in Cannanore, Madras


So he must have been demoted back to Private by 1850. The 25th remained in India and Ceylon until 1855. The 74th stayed on in India, so he probably requested a transfer so he could remain in India. If he managed to be promoted again the life in India for NCOs was quite good as he could have employed a couple of servants.

The 74th Foot were involved in the Indian mutiny of 1857-58, but I cannot find him in the medal rolls.

Ken

[rohanryan]

Ken,

That is amazing information. Thank you. What is the source of all this information?

Rohan

[km1971]

My GGF served in the 25th Regiment so I have a large collection of musters for the regiment. But still only covering about 10-15% of the 19th century.

The period 1842 -1843 is particularly complex for the regiment, so I have more coverage than for other periods. The service companies were in South Africa and were ordered to India. While the Depot moved Brecon, Winchester, Gravesend and Chatham; received a large reinforcement from other regiments before sending them in 4-5 ships to India. The musters say 'volunteers' but I doubt that they had much choice.

The service companies landed in Madras (region); while a large contingent from the UK (including Ryan) were sent first to Bombay (region). Before finally meeting up in Cannanore, Madras.

Ken

[rohanryan]

Ken,

Thank you so much for sharing!
This information has me confused. John Ryan's marriage to Ann O'Grady in 1853 shows him to be 19 years old.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGVT-NWP

He was probably born in 1833. If he transferred from the 56th Foot in 1842, he would have been 9 years old at that time??!! What was the minimum age to join a regiment?

Rohan

[km1971]

No he could not be a Private at that age. They had a rank of Boy and they were at least 14 in the 1840s. Most likely the transcription of the marriage is wrong.

Or your John wasn't 1712. Although there was only one John Ryan serving in the 25th at that time. Where did you get the number from?

Ken

[rohanryan]

Ken,

The church marriage records shows he was in the 25th. In the 74th there were 2 John Ryan's. One was also in the Malabar Police and the birth record of my gt grandmother, Ann Jane Ryan (born 29 Nov 1856), shows her father John Ryan to be member of the 74th and Malabar Police so I am certain I have the right Regiment Number.

All the info matches. (Married while in 25th, transferred to 74th and working with Malabar Police.)

Some of his muster records say Kensington Plasterer.

Rohan

[confused73]

May I please join in this post. First I would like to say thank you for all the information that has already been posted.
I have a problem with a soldier of the 25 th.  A William Leadsdale, who seems to be a bit of a con man. There are very few records of Leadsdales , but we found two,  the first was a William from Yorkshire born1834, The second William from Durham born 1843 We eventually decided that they were the same person.

William from York.
Enlisted in 59th 16 July 1855
Absent.           8-14 Aug  1861
Private.  15 Aug-27 Sept1861
Absent.   28 Sept -4 Oct 1861
Private       5.Oct- 4 May 1865
Re-engaged5May-26Dec1865
Deserted.                 27 Dec1865
                                                                        William from Durham enlisted 25 Foot   12 Jan. 1866
                                                                         Deserted.                                                      15 May.1866
Rejoined                 11 June1866
Awaiting trial 12 June-17 1866
Prison.   18 June-12 Aug. 1866                  
Private    13 Aug- 4 Dec.   1866
Discharge.             8 Jan.   1867                    
                                                                          Rejoined.                                 24April        1867
                                                                           Awaiting trial            25 April.  5 May.      1867
                                                                          Prison.                        9 May- 31 July.       1867
                                                                           Private.                     1 Aug-1867-17June 1869
                                                                           Discharge                             17. June.        1869
We have very little firm evidence about him except for a marriage certificate and birth cert for two children. No proof of his birth or death.
Why did he enlist in two regiments and desert from both?