Opionions sought on NRY & Durham family - (long complicated post)

[Ruskie]

Hello Kay. Welcome to rootschat and my Whitfield post. 

After my correspondence with Kathryn, I did dig out my Whtifield notes and re-read it all and I'm still none the wiser.

Firstly, I would be extremely interested in what Matthew's will reveals. Please let me know what it contains when you receive it.

I have also been interested in the lost fortunes of the Whitfield family. I know there is a lot of documentation about their estate and it's sale on A2A. I suppose it is probable that if the family fell on hard times, that the children would move away and make their own livings.

There is one thing you may be able to help me with Kay. I know that Matthew Whitfield and Elizabeth Eden had children Robert 1701, John 1704 and Matthew 1708(?). Now this son Matthew married Anne Vasey on 7 Nov 1747 Auckland St Andrew. I have not found any children born to this couple. Do you have any? Many people following the same line as I am have given them a child Ralph b 1751 in Marton. This is my missing link Ralph.    Ralph married Ann Redman 16 Jun 1777 in Marton "both of this parish". I do know that this Ralph was a tailor. His son John Whitfield b 1777 was also a tailor. Their other son (my Thomas) b 1779 was a husbandman on most of his children's birth entries. Other children born to Ralph Whitfield and Ann Redman are Ann 1781 Marton and Rachael 1782 Marton.

So what I really need to find out is:
Did Matthew Whitfield and Anne Vasey have any children? And was one of them a Ralph born about 1751?

I mentioned to Kathryn about another Ralph Whitfield born in the area in 1751. He was born in Stockton on Tees - not far away from Marton. Ralph was baptised 26 Dec 1751 Stockon St Thomas father Ralph Whitfield (weaver) and mother Elizabeth Dooby. Now I believe that this particular Ralph b 1751 married Elizabeth Ledley in 1780 in Stockton. So there are two Ralph Whitfield's bc 1751 in the area. Where is the birth/baptism of the missing one? 

Let's hope for a clue in the will you are wating for. Please keep in contact and let me know what it tells us. I think I too should be looking at wills - "my" Ralph died Aug 14 1836 age 85 in Marton. Do you know how I would go about finding if he left a will?

[angelfish58]

Hi Ruskie, you could try Teesside Archives (teesside_archives@middlesbrough.gov.uk) to see if they have a copy of the will, I was lucky enough to find one there for my OH's ggg grandfather who died in Middlesbrough in the 1840s and if they don't they should be able to point you in the right direction.

[Ruskie]

Thanks for the suggestion - I will send them an email. 

[kay123]

Hi Ruskie

Will certainly let you know what Matthew WHitfield's will reveals - Have also ordered his son Robert's (who died before him), Robert's wife Osytha's and Matthew's brother Utrick's. All of them I found through the NE Inheritance Project (at the Uni of Durham). They are willing to do specific searches of the database they have set up and let you have brief details and then you can request a p/c (at a small cost). Link is http://familyrecords.dur.ac.uk/nei/. So that might be worth a request re your Ralph (or indeed Matthew his potential father).

I have no children attached to Matthew the younger, other than your queried Ralph - which I got from some of the WHitfield stuff on line but (just as you say) I know there is a lot of wrong information out there. Obviously haven't concentrated on that line because I wanted to confirm my own link through Matthew and Elizabeth's daughter Katherine - who married a Joseph Robinson.

Auckland St Andrew's and St Helen's are linked closely to the Eden family which would explain possibly Matthew marrying Ann Vasey there. Have you checked whether your Ralph though born in Marton, was christened in Auckland (or indeed back in Whitfield)?

I have copies of some of the many WHitfield documents about the lease and then sale of WHitfield Hall which I am ploughing my way through (not easy reading!) but will also let you know whether there is anything mentioned in there. K

[Ruskie]

Thanks so much Kay.  I look forward to finding out what the wills contain.

I have heard of the NE Inheritance Project and will contact them about potential wills. Yes, I will not be completely happy until I find the baptism of the missing link Ralph b 1751 - I suppose it IS possible that he wasn't christened. 

I have also found another extracted record on the IGI:

Ralph Whitfield
chr 10 Feb 1751
Newburn Northumberland
father William
no mother named

and possibly the corresponding (IGI extracted) marriage:
Willm Whitfield = Anne Tate
"about" 10 Feb 1750
Newburn

Not sure what to make of that ...

Glad it's not just me who has no children born to Matthew Whitfield and Anne Vasey. Someone has made a leap of faith assuming that my Ralph 1751 was the son of this couple. Yes, I did check Auckland St Andrew for the christenings of any children there. Found none.    I have not checked elsewhere parish by parish as I didn't know where to turn next. Perhaps it might be worth my checking Whitfield.

Thanks a lot for keeping your eye open for any mention of Ralph 1751 or indeed any children born to Matthew and Anne Vasey.

I look forward to hearing from you again with some good news, I hope. 

[Ruskie]

Kay,
I suppose you have already done a lot of your own research, but in case you haven't, I've read numerous online articles/books etc and drawn up a rough Whitfield tree including all the information I found, plus I've added a few notes. If you are interested I can give you a rundown of what I have. The family is quite well documented. 
As an example, for your C(K)atherine and Joseph Robinson, I have children:
Elizabeth chr 1 Apr 1729 Wolsingham
Matthew chr 1 Apr 1731
Margaret chr 6 Mar 1732/3 died in infancy
Robert chr 27 Jan 1734/5
Catherine chr Feb 1736/7
Jane chr 13 Jan 1738/9
Mary chr 19 Jan 1740/1
Utrick chr 14 June 1743
Margaret chr 29 Jun 1745 died in infancy
Margaret chr 11 Feb 1748/9

Also I have Osythia Wright bapt 13 Jan 1703/4 Brancepeth father John mother Elizabeth Jackson buried 4 Apr 1752 Wolsingham.

There was some conflicting information from different sources if I remember correctly. 

[Ruskie]

I wish I'd made clearer notes ...

I think I have Elizabeth (chr 13 Sept 1733 Wolsingham) and Mary (chr 8 May 1738 Wolsingham) as daughters of Robert Whitfield and Osythia Wright.

Robert died Jan 1746. Roberts will is dated 8 Oct 1746, proved 12 Feb 1746 - he left everything to his wife. [those dates don't make sense  ]

Hendry Hopper (chr 19 Oct 1729 St Oswald Durham buried 17 Sept 1796 Wolsingham) was guardian of Elizabeth and Mary. He married Elizabeth when she was 16.  They had 19 children. 

Mary married Charles Challoner a wine merchant in York. She had a fortune of £500 (over £650,000 today) when she married.

[kay123]

Hi Ruskie

Wills arrived this morning but have only had a quick glance so far (and am going away at the end of this week, so annoyingly can't spend as much time as I would like looking at them as have other things that need to be done!)

Those are the children I also have for Joseph and Katherine - I'm descended from Utrick Robinson (and Utrick remained a family name - my great uncle is  Henry Utric Johnson who incidentally is still alive at the age of 106 but never knew why he was called Utric!). Nice to have agreement over the children given some of the wrong information out there.

Also agree with you about Osytha Wright. Elizabeth and Mary are the 2 daughters of Robert and Osytha - no other children (or at least if they are they died in infancy). Robert's will is dated the 8th Oct 1746 and proved 12th Feb 1746 (this would have been when Jan - March was part of the previous year iykwim). I have in my notes a possible date of death as 11/1/1746 but can't now see where this came from which probably means it was somewhere unsourced on the internet. A brief scan of his will indicates he leaves everything to Ositha.
I can find no reference to Hendry Hopper being Elizabeth and Mary's guardian and puzzlingly in Utrick's will (Matthew's brother) he appoints Joseph Reay as their guardian - not sure why he does this not Matthew???
You have an extra child for Hendry and ELizabeth - I only  have 18! Ositha seems to leave everything to Eliabeth and Mary, who also inherit from Matthew's brother Utrick (£1200 and £800 respectively).
WIll now go and look briefly at Matthew's will in the hope that it clarifies some of this! K

[kay123]

Matthew's will was written on 8/5/1759 - he was buried in Wolsingham on 9/6/1761 (parish records). He leaves Causey House & Garth in Wolsingham (which I don't know about - had assumed he lived in Whitfield House on Wolsingham's main street) to his grandaughter Elizabeth Robinson (no mention of any of the other Robinson children). The rest appears to be divided between Elizabeth and Mary, Robert's 2 children. Nothing is left to any of his children, though there are only 3 I haven't found deaths for (my Katherine, your Matthew and Ann). Most of the others died in childhood, so wouldn't have had any children.
So not sure it really helps - certainly no mention of Matthew or grandchildren on that side.
Will transcribe them fully and can also scan them in if you would like a copy?
Wondering whether it might be worth seeing if ELizabeth Whitfield (Eden - Matthew's wife) left a will - she died in 1750.
Did ask whether they had a will for SIr RObert Eden, ELizabeth's father, but they didn't have one. Am sure there must be one somewhere but not sure where to look now.

Sorry it's not got us any further with your Ralph/Matthew.

K