Opionions sought on NRY & Durham family - (long complicated post)

[Ruskie]

Hello Kathryn. Thanks for your reply and for reviving this old post. Do you have a connection to this family?

It's been so long since I delved into this family that I had to go back over my messy old notes to refresh my memory and it's still a bit hazy. 

I did manage to look at the PR's last year. I've also met a couple of distant 'cousins'.

I have confirmed the marriage of Thomas Whitfield and Elizabeth Clemme/nt on 16 Jul 1801 in West Acklam Yorkshire. Thomas had an older brother John, who also married in West Acklam.

Children born to Thomas Whitfiled and Elizabeth Clemmet are:
Thomas Whitfield chr 5 Jun 1803 in Stainton in Cleveland
Ann 1805
Elizabeth 1807
Ralph 1809
John 1811
Rachel 1813
Mary 1815
Margaret 1817
Hannah 1819
Isabella 1821
Plus another son born before 1809, presumably between their marriage in 1801 and birth of first known son Thomas in 1803.
(phew)

My brick wall is now Thomas Whitfield's father Ralph Whitfiled b 1751ish. He married Thomas's mother Ann Redman on 16 Jun 1777 in Marton. They were "both of this parish".

Ralph was born about 1751 possibly in Marton or elsewhere. There is no baptism for him in the Marton PR's. Several online trees (I believe originating from a single source) have his father as Matthew Whitfield b 1710 in Wolsingham and his mother as Anne Vasey. This line leads back to landed gentry.

I am not convinced it is correct as there IS another Ralph Whitfield of the right age (sorry am rusty with this line and can't recall where he is from) with humbler origins. I'm not sure if this may be wishful thinking on the part of other researchers. A distant cousin has a tree made up by another ancestor in the 1920's I think, which tallies with what I and others have discovered, and he specifically mentions that Ralph b1751 is our unproven link. A 'cousin' says she has traced the other Ralph who is elsewhere while ours is in Marton, but I have yet to get round to proving this for myself.

Thanks for the offer to type up the Marton PR's, but I think I have extracted everything I need for the time being. But if you can find the birth of Ralph Whitfield, somewhere, in about 1751 that would be brilliant! 

[Sleepykath]

Hi,

I'm descended from Thomas b 1803, he married Hannah though I don't know anything about her family yet. 

I'll have a look round and see if I can find anything about Ralph b 1751, also another son for Thomas and Elizabeth.

I'll let you know if I find anything.

Kathryn

[Ruskie]

How exciting Kathryn - great to make contact with you! I'm a descendant of Thomas's sister Ann b 20 July 1806!

In my notes I have your Thomas marrying Hannah Heron 14 Nov 1826 Darlington (I have a question mark beside this but I can't recall why  ). I have not entered the marriage onto my FH programme. I really need to get back to study up again on this family.

Be cautious of the online trees (have you looked at any yet?) - I can't remember specific details but I think some of them have the wrong marriages. Children for your Thomas and Hannah I have are Thomas b 1829, Robert b 1833, Ann b 1834, Henry b 1836, John b 1843 and Jane b 1844. Unfortunately I did not take note of my sources for these births.

Have you looked at the Familysearch Pilot search BT's for Durham? There are many of our Whitfields on there.

I had huge amounts of correspondence on the Whitfields from my new-found distant cousins, but a computer malfunction last year meant that I lost it all. I need to ask nicely if they would be kind enough to re-send it .... 

[Sleepykath]

Hi,

I'm a bit dubious of some of the Whitfield stuff I've seen online, they have some things that are definitly wrong.  The Ann b 1834 you mention, I had that, same as you I'm unsure of where I got that though I think it was one of the dubious sources.  I can't find her at all now though there is an Ann b 1826, Great Ayton,  parents Thomas and Hannah, which is really close if you don't know the area.  This also fits with what I've found on census records.  So I'm assunimg thats the right Ann. 

I can't get onto the Familysearh pilot unfortunately, my Operating System doesn't seem to be new enough!  It's a bit of a pain beacuse it sounds good.

Kathryn

[Ruskie]

It's a shame you can't get onto the Familysearch Pilot site. I did find all of the births for the children of Thomas Whitfield and Elizabeth Clemmet.

I think all of the images of these baptisms were lost when my PC died, but I will have a dig around to see if still have them saved somewhere. (fingers crossed) Alternatively I will have to trawl through the BT's again to locate them all. I have transcribed the information which I will type up for you if you don't already have it? 

Perhaps some of this Whitfield information including the Ann b 1834 came from the 1841 census? 

I have a little more on the Clemment side if you would like it?

[Ruskie]

From the Parish Registers, St Mary's, West Acklam:

Thomas Whitfield and Elizabeth Clemmet both of this parish married in this chapel by virtue of a licence this sixteenth day of July in the year 1801 by me Wm Noone curate
Thomas Whitfield signed
X Elizabeth Clemmet
wit: William Clemmet and Margaret Mowbray (both signed)....................................................................

Thomas's brother John:
John Whitfield of the Parish of Marton and Mary Elcoate of this Parish were published in this Chapel on the 22nd and 29th days of May and 5th of June 1808 by Wm Noone Curate. Married by banns 9th June 1808
both signed
wit: John Hindzon and Daniel Webster
....................................................................

This is your Thomas:
Stainton in Cleveland
1803
chr June 5
Thos son of Thos and Elizabeth Whitfield
day labr
abode: Hemlington

[Ruskie]

Kathryn,

Regarding Ralph Whitfield (place and exact date of birth unknown but circa 1751) who marries Ann Redman and has sons John and 'our' Thomas (who = Elizabeth Clemmet) ... the followng is a quote from a family tree owned by a relative:
"The missing link, and one I am most anxious to place, is that connecting Ralph Whitfield, who first appears at Marton, with Robert Whitfield, son of Matthew Whitfield, of Wolsingham, or other sons."
This is the last paragraph from "The Pedigree Register - Whitfield" by RCV Whitfield written Sept 1907.
(Ralph Cyril Vernon Whitfield 1878-1959)

This is exactly the same conclusion I came to independently. The birth/baptism of Ralph is our missing link, otherwise we cannot connect to the Whitfield/Eden 'landed gentry' family.
I am treating this link with caution as I know that the Victorians were interested in genealogy and connections with royal lineage and suspect that it was then that this connection was "pencilled in" and has since been taken as gospel by today's researchers who've spread it all over the internet.

I will look for my notes about the "other" more lowly born Ralph Whitfield. 

PS> do you have your Thomas b 1803 on all censuses? (If not I think I do and can pass them on if you'd like them)

[Sleepykath]

thanks

[kay123]

Hi

Am very interested in whether you can form a link. I am definitely descended from Matthew Whitfield and Elizabeth Eden - their daughter Katherine married Joseph Robinson and that is my line. I have for some time been researching what happened within the Whitfield family in the early 1700s as they seem to have built up debts of about £20,000 (a considerable amount of money) which led to the sale of Whitfield Hall.
Matthew and Elizabeth did have a son Matthew (christened in Wolsingham which is where they had moved to - they let out Whitfield Hall at that time - on 1st March 1708). If (and it is a very big "if") your Ralph is the son of this Matthew, it could fit into a picture of him choosing to move away from Wolsingham, as the late 1740s was when the debts were called in.
I have just requested a copy of Matthew's will - maybe that will cast some light.

Kay