William Williams' in Wales...Is he a lost cause?

[alllegs]

Yes, that is definately the corrrect marriage for Janes parents, I have that already.

Yes I do know Rachel's parents, but I can't for the life of me remember and if I start looking now I'll burn my dinner!!!

Are we 100% certain that the Nantyglo William can't be found anywhere else in 1891? Or a death record for him?

If that can be ascertained then I'm pretty hopeful that you guys have found MY William!

THANK YOU SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH   

Legs
xxxx

[osprey]

No burnt offerings please   

I can't see another possbile for that William in Yorkshire or Durham and the only likely death is the one you already have. But if he moved back to Wales.....

I'd like to say it's a definite match, but there is room for doubt.

Still think it will be interesting to see who the girls are living with in 1911. If only we could find them in 1901. I had a look through Nazareth House in Middlesbrough in 1901 just in case, but no sign.

[alllegs]

That is driving me insane too Osprey, I'd love to know where the girls are in 1901 but I have tried every conceivable spelling of their names and a large range of birth dates but to no avail

Just to update on their names;

Margaret Williams born 1892 in on the 1901, living with Aunt and Uncle Charlotte and Matthew Steel

Martha Jane (aka Pattie) Williams born 1893 in Grangetown is nowhere
Rachel Williams born 1895 in Grangetown is nowhere
Jane Williams boen 1872 in Witton Park, Durham is nowhere

Jane died in Middlesbrough Union Workshouse of a cerebral haemorrhage aged 28 on July 8th 1902.

Last known address before the 1901 is 41 Stapylton Street, Grangetown (Margaret and Patties birth certs and Williams death cert)

[lizdb]

Hi allegs - another break from that dissertation? !! 

Just read through this after you mentioned it earlier today on our shipwreck thread, but have decided that I cant begin to face it tonight!
all I have taken in is that Ann seems to become Amy and then Emma?

Will look again another day!

[osprey]

They're not at number 41 in 1901 - family headed by Bernard Martin aged 27 are there.
Think she's normally Amy, but appears as Emma in 1851 and Ann in 1871, Amy in 1861, 1881 and 1891. 1871 would be worrying except that all the children match and James senior is consistent with Pembrokeshire, although I think he says Milford Haven & Haverfordwest as his place of birth, but that's just from memory.

I'll carry on my virtual stroll along Stapylton Road...

[alllegs]

Are you having a nice stroll Osprey?

They lived at Wood Street at the time of their marriage, but obviously they moved to Stapylton St prior to their girls births.

On Jane's 1902 death cert it mentions she was the widow of William Williams, Steelworker, formerly of Kendal Street, Middlesbrough.  I've been unable to locate Kendal Street though.  Also Jane's sister Elizabeth Hewitt (nee Thomas) (who's daughter later moved out to Florida with Martha Jane (Pattie)) was with Jane when she died and she was living at Princes Street, South Bank. No girls with her though.....

Hi Liz!

Did you have a nice lie down?  I think Ann/Emma are def Amy as that name is used again for some of the kids/grandkids.

I'm trying to find the marriage of James and Amy now....

Legs
xxxx

[osprey]

I did have an interesting walk around that enumeration district - good mix of Welsh & Irish families. Waved to Charlotte as I passed...

Does the death cert say Kendal Street, Middlesbrough? I've looked for it in 1881 as it's easier to search then, but with no success. It might take a while to check all the enumeration districts in Middlesbrough.

I had a quick look for James & Amy's marriage - can't say anything looked really obvious. It should be registered Abergavenny as that covered Nanytglo at the time. Perhaps worth trying to find a birth reg first for Henry or Martha for the maiden name  - quick phone call to Blaenau Gwent 01495 722305? Pity they didn't name one child something outlandish.

[lizdb]

Well, I have spent ages looking but nothing to show - other than a scrappy piece of paper with a tree scrawled on it.

I cant find Jane, Martha and Rachel in1901 anymore than anyone else.

If Jane died in the workhouse in 1902, i think it would be worth contacting the local record office to see if any workhouse records survive. They might tell you when she was admitted and from where. And whether it was just her or children too - who knows maybe they went in with her but then were farmed out to rellies/ foster homes / whatever when it was clear mum was not long for this life.

what a tangled web though .

[lizdb]

Just checked 1901 for Wales too - dont know if anyone had done that before, if case little Martha and Rachel were taken in by Welsh rellies.
No joy there either.