Romani Rosers

[tmm1975]

Hi,

I am looking for information on the Roser family.  William and Dianah Roser married in 1830 and had Lucy (1831), Elizabeth (1835), Mary Anne (1836), Dianah (1842), William John (1844), Caroline (1847) and James (1852).  I am looking in this county as Lucy's Death record is listed as her being born in Gravesend.  I realise that as romani they probably moved aroung alot, but figured I had to start somewhere!!!

Thanks
Tanya

[Tati]

Hi Tanya,

Is this any use?

1841
HO107/1115/1 32 4
East Grinstead, Sussex
Grinstead Common
William Roser, 35, Ag lab, no
Diana, 30, no
John, 12, no
Lucy, 10, yes
Elizabeth, 8, yes
Franciss (female), 6, yes
Mary Ann, 3, yes

 

[tmm1975]

Hi Tati,

So sorry I should have made note that the family arrived in the swan river colony in August 1842.  I haven't heard of John or Francis before and after looking at the dates I am not sure that we are on the same page.  I am going to have a squiz on the IGI and see if there are any other listings for the family.  I guess I need to gain access to the earlier cencuses.  Thanks for your help, but please don't be put off I need all the help I can get!!!

Thanks
Tanya

[casalguidi]

Hi Tanya

That family that Tati posted looks good to me

I guess I need to gain access to the earlier cencuses

There are very few earlier census and those that do survive are merely lists of heads of households only.

There appear to be a number of submitted (by persons like you or me) entries on the IGI for this family but I could only see two quite likely possible parish register entries:

Lucy (dau of William & Diana) baptised East Grinstead, Sussex 1832 and John (son of William & Diana) baptised Mereworth, Kent 1829.

Would Swan River Colony be Australia?

Do you know where William & Diana married in 1830?

Casalguidi

[tmm1975]

Hi Casalguidi & Tati,

I have just checked my notes and a book written about the Roser family (written prior to the internet) and given the fact that the author has never found a registration for the marriage or birth of any of their children I would have to expect that she has absolutely no records and is going on verbal family history.  Therefore it is quite likely that John and Francis belonged to William and Dianah.  As for a date for their marriage, the author claims that she has gone right through the mormon genealogial library records and found nothing.  It appears though they spent alot of time in Kent, as Lucy death cert states that she was born in Gravesend, Kent.  Could someone explain how far gravesend is from East Grinstead where she was baptised?

Thanks
Tanya

[casalguidi]

Hi Tanya

Could someone explain how far gravesend is from East Grinstead where she was baptised?

Just under 40 miles on todays roads according to the RAC routeplanner

http://www.rac.co.uk/web/routeplanner/

Although the census aren't always accurate, the 1841 census does indicate that Lucy was born in Sussex ie. "yes" for whether born in county of residence.  Could Grinstead have been mistaken for Gravesend at some point - they begin and end with the same letters and old handwriting can be difficult to deciper at times and/or did they sail from Gravesend?  Adding to that, it is an added difficulty pinpointing exactly where travellers were born and/or baptised as they were on the move all the time and many weren't absolutely sure.

Casalguidi

[tmm1975]

Hi  Casalguidi,

Quite possibly they were mixed up. It is interesting that her death cert and the census read differently, I wonder if the census is more likely to be correct though, would you need proff of birth location to aquire a death cert in aust? will have to ring tomorrow and find out!  I guess you would assume that the head of the house would have given the info.  Maybe I need to look in Sussex a little more. 

Also interesting is that the family is said to have sailed from London in 1842, do you have any idea of where is london they would have sailed from?

Thanks
Tanya

[bearkat]

I think many people sailed from Gravesend.

[casalguidi]

Hi Tanya

I see the ship was the "Simon Taylor" http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/shipping/simon-t.htm

"The Times" of Tuesday 3 May 1842 reports "Ships sailing from Gravesend (Kent) April 29/30 May 1/2"

The "Simon Taylor" for "Swan River".

The passenger list (link posted above) shows the children as in the 1841 census of East Grinstead with the exception of John.  Do you know what became of him?

Some ships loaded up with cargo in the London docks and then picked passengers up in Gravesend a day or so later.

would you need proff of birth location to aquire a death cert in aust?

I doubt it very much and in any case birth certificates didn't come into being here in England until 1837 and even then the rules for registering births weren't tightened until the 1870s.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/037q/ gives dates of birth for both William & Diana - would these have come from death certificates would you know and, if so, would there be any places of birth or names of parents for either of them?

Casalguidi