Lookup Marriage - James Longman Gawler to Ann Keen?

[gaynor50]

Lookup marriage of James Longman Gawler to Ann ?
Lookup if James L Gawler and Ann ? had any children


James Longman Gawler was a parish clerk that often witnessed marriages so he does appear a lot on the parish records online.  He was married twice. 

James was born Abt 1788 in Tooting,Surrey,England and was parish clerk in Lambeth,Gr London,Surrey and he died at the age of 78 years in Sep 1866.  He married his second wife when he was about 61 years of age and had 5 children!!   

1st wife  - Ann Keen who died in I think in 1847.  (They are listed in a Census for 1841)

2nd wife - Caroline C L Miller

In a census for 1851 it has a mother in law living with James L Gawler and wife Caroline C L

Martha C M Kiven born abt 1801 in Hoke Mington Middlesex England - Mother in  law

In a census for 1871 it has Martha C name as Rovere?  and is listed as Caroline's mother so I am totally confused with the correct surname.

I was thinking it was perhaps Ann Kiven not Keen or vise versa (with a naming error)

OR  was Caroline C L Miller nee Kiven? 

HELP      

Gaynor50

[Jane Masri]

Hi Gaynor,
I've looked on the Surrey Marriage Index & the dates you need for his first marriage are not covered in Lambeth & it doesn't appear anywhere else in Surrey either.
Checked Pallot's Marriage Index 1780-1837 & no Gawler marriage there either.
Just a thought but Caroline might have been a widow when she married James so her mothers name would not be the same as hers.

jane

[Jane Masri]

Just looked at the IGI & there are two baptisms attributed to a James & Ann Gawler;

Ann 13/5/1819 St. Mary Lambeth.  Extracted
Maria  8/1/1830      ditto.               Batch no.  1016582

A marriage would have taken place prior to 1819 which narrows it down a bit.  As James was a Parish Clerk it would make sense that family events took place in the same church, most likely St. Mary's?

FreeBMD gives a death for Ann Gawler 1844 in Lambeth
FreeBMD has the marriage of Caroline Catherine Lydia Miller to James Gawler, Lambeth (4 393) Q3 1849
Another thought might be that her mother, Martha, remarried.  I had a look at the 1861,  1871 & 1881 censuses & it's very difficult to read.  I tried to find them (Martha & Caroline ) in 1841 but no luck   Tried to find the death of Martha but proves difficult as we can't decipher her surname.  Caroline & the family are in West Ham, Essex in 1881 so I presume that's where Martha dies.
  Saw that there's a 36 year age gap between James & Caroline 


jane

[Jane Masri]

Was your James Longman Gawler a herbalist on the side?  Found this reference;
http://herbariaunited.org/collector/10878/

jane

[gaynor50]

Hi Jane

Thank you for your work.  All the possibilies with that surname are endless because of it's spelling twice - different on both census's.

If Caroline Miller was a previous marriage it's a bit unusual to name her children's middle names after her other husband surname.

If her mother was married to a Miller and then remarried to one of the surnames placed in the census what is the right spelling? 

I know this is going to drive me nuts. 

I will put down that he was involved as a herbalist at some stage.  His father William Gawler wrote organ music for the Lambeth Church.

Love your new little twiglet - reminds me I need a hug.  Wish my my big twiglets made me some grandchildren.

This is not an easy one - even if the Gawlers were quite prominent back then.

Thank you

Gaynor50   

[Jane Masri]

If Caroline Miller was a previous marriage it's a bit unusual to name her children's middle names after her other husband surname.

You've lost me on this one, Gaynor...please elaborate 

Her mothers name on the census looks like Roven/Raven.  Could it possibly be a foreign name?
I'll try to spend a bit more time on this today but it definately looks as if her mother remarried.

Grandchildren are the best   Hope you have lots of them

jane

[Valda]

Deaths Sep 1890   
DE KOVEN  Martha Caroline  89  W. Ham  4a 59

The surname given on the 1881 census

Martha Caroline Miller widow
Kenneth Alex? de Koven 
1829
St Luke Chelsea
by licence 

Regards

Valda

[Jane Masri]

Ohhh nice one Valda...go to the top of the class    I was convinced that first letter was an 'R'

jane

[Valda]

Only other early instance of the surname in the GRO

Deaths Dec 1843 
DE KOVEN  Joan Elizabeth    Marylebone  1 167

Regards

Valda