TREASE/TRAIES continued...

[oldmanriver]

Hi Bob, Deb, Kerry  etc.

Just to say that the date that Deb gave for the baptism of James son of Hannah and William in 1826 (born 1824) was the correct one.  I gave the year as 1830 which is wrong - maybe the fact he was baptised on the 30th of the month made me write 1830!

Talking about dates - did anyone else notice that William TRAIES and Hannah KNIGHT had married on 16 July 1819, William became an Out Pensioner at Chelsea 25 September 1819 and daughter, Jane, was baptised the next day 26 September 1819!  Bob wondered how an old man came to marry a young spinster.  Hannah was obviously heavily  pregnant at the time of their marriage.  Possibly it was not even William's  child (he would have been an in-patient when Jane was conceived) but Hannah took the best escape route she could see.  By marrying William the child took his name and Hannah got some sort of security.  Maybe it came as a surprise to her when she discovered that the old man still had plenty of life left in him!

Bernice

[deb usa]

Hi everyone.

Bernice... I like your thoughts on the dates and why Hannah may have married William. 

Bob ..I forget how the "Masters Traies' people fit in.

I have found Betsey Masters Traies Marriage under FRAIES. ( St Mary Abchurch ) George Nangle = widower
18th Oct 1823
witnesses are interesting;
James Smith
Mellona(??) Traies
Mary Jackman Traies

Looking at the whole page of marriages on which BMT and GN marry ..it seems that James Smith was a witness to all but one. 

Do the witnesses sound/look familiar?

deb

[gardenerbob]

Dear Bernice et al,

I had hoped to have an idyllic picture of an old man brought near to death thorough a chronic disability brought about through serving his country recovering to health and starting a new life with a young wife. I am not sure what to think now - the rules on Wikipedia state that you had to be free from the obligation to support a wife or family to be an in-pensioner yet William was clearly married before he was declared an out pensioner. All very mysterious if he married while an in-pensioner and anyway what was the point of marrying if you were going to live in a room by yourself - I expect there are more Chelsea records that will help determine what went on.
He was definitely invalided out of the army in November 1797 and appears to be in Chelsea then but in December 1797 he joins the militia which seems to me to be a part time force on call so surely he could not be an In pensioner then? They are disbanded in April 1802 and he marries Jane in Sep 1802 so surely he must be an out-pensioner then?  This link to wikipedia outlines the Chelsea rules:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_pensioner#In-_and_out-pensioners.

I find it all very confusing,

Regards,

Bob

[deb usa]

Hi again

from Bob's site:
FAMILY OF WILLIAM TREAYS and SUSAN ARSCOTT
children;
Harriet TREAYS (23 in 1841)
Eliza TREAYS (21 in 1841 = John Brine)

Marriage for Harriett = James Camken
 25 Dec 1847  Saint Marylebone
Harriett : full age, spinster, Carburton St, father: WILLIAM TREAYS: BOOTMAKER
James: full age, widower, gardener, Norton St, father: William Camken, butcher, deceased

witnesses;
Edw Speller
Eliza TREAYS

deb

[gardenerbob]

Hi Deb,

Mary Jackman Traies is her sister born 1802 in Dartmouth. Before your post, the only record I had was her baptism/birth so it is useful to know she was still alive at time of her sister's marriage. Melloney Traies was another sister aka Amelia who married William Jackman in 1832.

I have no idea what happened to Betsey and George Nangle but I reckon they may have emigrated to the USA and George set up as a Silversmith  there.

No idea what happened to Mary Jackman Traies.

The other witness James Smith may have been a church warden or other attendant at church.

Bob

[deb usa]

Hi Bob

We keep on crossing each other in Cyberspace LOL

I will look around for the Nangles and the Jackman Traies people.

from your site;
         FAMILY OF WILLIAM TREAYS and SUSAN ARSCOTT
Per IGI, Susannah TREAYS, daughter of William TREAYS and Miss GEIMMET was christened at Bristol on 6Jan1816. This may be another child of
this William TREAYS. William's brother Edward married a Joan GWINNETT in 1817 - could GEIMMET and GWINNETT be the same family?

I have found this;
Banns
Henry Treays =  Sarah Grimmett 
9 Jun 1838

all very similar. What do you think?

deb

St James, Clerkenwell

[deb usa]

Hi Bob

Found the marriage of Henry TREAYS and Sarah GRIMMETT. August 4th, 1839, St James Clerkenwell

Henry TREAYS, full age, batchelor, shoemaker, 1 CAROLINA PLACE, father WILLIAM TREAYS shoemaker
Sarah GRIMMETT , full age, spinster, 3 Church Street, Father: Thomas, Grocer

witnesses: Thomas Grimmett and Mary Grimmett


So William had a son who is not on your site.

deb

[deb usa]

I wonder if Mary Treays is d/o Henry Treays and Sarah Grimmett as you have her a dau to William and Susan .... but we think she is the granddaughter and not dau.

   Mary TREAYS                              
   1841    Mary Treays, age 6, b. St James Clerkenwell , Middlesex, Daur. (so stated but probably G.daur. but daur. of whom?) living 1 Caroline Place, Clerkenwell, Middlesex
   1851    Census Mary Treays, age 11, Clerkenwell, Middlesex,daughter, living at 1 Caroline Place, Clerkenwell ,Middlesex with "grand?" parents


will look for her

deb

[deb usa]

In 1851 Henry Treays is 37 (shoemaker) b St Lukes and is living at Edwards street, Shoreditch, with Sarah (39, dressmaker, b westminster st James).
children
Mary 7, St Luke
sarah 4, St Luke
Thomas 2, Shoreditch

So it looks like Mary the dau/gr dau  bc 1835 is not his. 

deb