TREASE/TRAIES continued...

[oldmanriver]

Hi all

Sorry, no I haven't found the missing baptisms, so don't get excited!!  But you may be interested in one of my discoveries.

First of all go to www.rbkc.gov.uk/vmgallery, when it opens click on browse the Then and Now Image Gallery (2nd large window down).  When it opens, scroll down  until you reach Notting Hill Gate and images of the same scene in the 21st, 20th and 19th centuries appear.  Click on the one of the 19th century and you see the scene as it was at sometime before 1864 when the Tollgate from which Notting Hill Gate got its name was taken down.  James Traies was living at 10 Notting Hill Gate, (or Notting Hill High Street) in the 1850's.  This is Notting Hill High Street as it was when James Traies lived there.

This could also be the print referred by someone in 1835 who wrote 'Nothing is heard but the notes of the lark, the linnet or the nightingale'.  By 1840 the sleepy hamlet became a village and began being invaded by the urban working class.  The building of the canal and the coming of the railway soon meant that London did not have to depend on the market gardens and farms surrounding the City for food and the urban sprawl began.  Landlords built tiny terraced houses just south of the tollgate and rented rooms out to the poor.  By 1903 when Charles Booth, founder of the Salvation Army, visited Notting Hill, he called it one of the worst areas in London!

I'll write a bit more about the Notting Hill area later on.  I know I ramble on sometimes and don't want to bore you but I find the the growth of London fascinating.

Bye for now
Bernice

[kerryb]

Hi Bernice

Fascinating!  What I find interesting about London is the knowledge that going back 150 years or more and it wasn't the urban sprawl we know now but lots of small villages with fields in between.

Recently I have read a series of books by C J Sansum about a London Lawyer, Matthew Shardlake and this really illustrates how different London was in the 1500s.

It is so hard to imagine it like that

Kerry

[oldmanriver]

Hi

I've been looking at various old maps of London recently, including one called 'Cary's New and Accurate Plan of London and Westminster 1795'.  It includes a good enlarged version of Kensington and Paddington, both surrounded by fields.

Kensington Gravel Pits is right on the edge of the map (2nd row, 1st left of plan).  The name was given to the main road that continued as Uxbridge Road and led into Oxford Street.  It seems that the name was originally given to the road itself, but then also used for the area alongside the road. 

As Kensington and Paddington expanded, Kensington Gravel Pits, was re-named Notting Hill Gate.  Uxbridge Road became Bayswater Road due to the developement of Bayswater. 

The map of 1795 shows just a few rows of cottages along the Uxbridge Road called Black Lion Row and George Row.  By the 1830's further rows of small cottages had probably began to line this main route.  It is quite likely that one of the rows of cottages lining Kensington Gravel Pits was given the name of Greyhound Row.

As the whole area developed, the name of Kensington Gravel Pits disappeared and was replaced by the name of Notting Hill Gate.  This means that the address of Greyhound Row, Kensington Gravel Pits in the 1830's was exactly the same location as Notting Hill Gate in later years.  Notting Hill Gate was just a small section of Notting Hill High Street, but the name of Notting Hill was also given to the nearby housing developement.  Notting Hill Gate is still on modern maps, but the name of Notting Hill High Street has been replaced by Holland Park Avenue!

This is an extract from 'Old and New London' Vol 5. Published 1878 but probably written earlier.

"The neighbourhood of Kensington Gravel Pits, by which name is understood a district of some extent bordering on the Uxbridge Road, has long been noted for the salubrity of the air and was a favourite residence of artists, half a century ago.  The High Road through the district is now known as High Street, Notting Hill and forms the Northern boundary of the suburb".  (Kensington High Street formed the Southern boundary

Another extract (unfortunately no reference)

"Portobello Road grew up between the estates of Notting Hill and Paddington in a period of expansion in the late 19th century.  Previously (1841) it had been a country track called PortoBello Lane connecting Kensington Gravel Pits (now Notting Hill Gate) with Kensal Green".

Bye for now

Bernice - Have a good holiday Kerry.

[kerryb]

Hi Bernice

Had a fantastic holiday, if a little hot, 38C doesn't sound that hot, but it took a while to acclimatise to it. 

The geographical information is very interesting and useful.  I've been to Portobello Road market, funny to think I may have been walking in James's footsteps. 

Kerry

[gardenerbob]

Hi,

Took a break from searching baptism registers - instead have been transcribing two claims involving Traies family members held at National Archives.

Have now put part transcripts on the website:-
The Traies v Wivell case involves a claim by William Traies (husband of Mary Bond) and his children against Abraham Wivell one of the executors of his brother John's will. I find it really fascinating. I think it more or less settles that James grandfather was the Samuel who married Elizabeth Chubb but I may be missing something. It also confirms that Abraham Wivell was the uncle of Abraham Wivell the artist.  Also references more buildings and places in London with Traies connections at that  time - following from Bernice's recent post. Thanks to Bernice for pointing out that this document existed.  The transcipt is linked to the will transcript
http://www.trease.org.uk/traies/txb/John_Traies_1787_will.htm
The Traies v Traies case involves a claim by William Trobridge/Traies illegitimate son of Mary Traies against his grandmother and Aunts. It is very useful as it establishes that Mary's father William Traies who married Rebecca Perkins died out in the male line. It also resolves the mystery of which Mary Traies fathered the child. The link to this transcript is associated with this family
http://www.trease.org.uk/traies/txt/txt00.htm#16w_rp

Regards,

Bob

[kerryb]

Very interesting Bob

Presumably it must be someone in John's family from St Pancras that James went to work for in London.  That appears to be where the first few children were baptised.  Have we checked the registers there for a marriage to Hannah?  Yes I am sure someone has. 

I need to print out this thread and reread.

Kerry

[gardenerbob]

There is a gap of around 20years between the death of John Traies and the appearance of James and he left no children and no wife. His late wife Mary Porter may have had relatives around that James could connect with. We know Abraham Wivell was around but relationships with the Traies family would probably be non-existent by time James arrived.

We show Jame's sister Ann marrying Robert Humphreys in 1814 - may be there is a pre-existing family connection there. Abraham Wivell the executor's (not the artist) two wives may have had connections that James could use also one of William Traies's executors was a tinplate worker in Devon - perhaps that is the link.

In short there seem to be many possibilities but nothing is immediately obvious. Will work on it - it will possibly also explain James's moves around London and lead us to the missing christenings.

Bob

[oldmanriver]

HI Bob

Thanks for all the further information on the various members of the TRAIES and WIVELL families.  I've now read it all through at least three times and it is just starting to sink in. 

You need to be a lawyer to understand some of this and the fact that lots of people of different generations were given the same Christian name doesn't help!

I had already looked at the WIVELL site you mentioned and I also looked at another site www.bastonfamily.co.uk to see if I could find any mention of Daniel BASTON the other executor of the will of John TRAIES.  I did not find a Daniel BASTON, but what I did find was, according to this site, there was a John and Mary BASTON who were in St. Pancras by 1840.  John BASTON had been born in Ottery, Devon in 1795 and his occupation was a tin plate worker and Gas Meter Maker, as were members of our TRAIES family.

The name of BADSTONE appeared in Crediton when a John TRAIES married a Rose BADSTONE and a Daniel BADSTONE thought to be a brother of this Rose is also on one of your trees.  Presumably in the way that TRAIES is spelt in different ways, so BADSTONE and BASTON could be the same name.

I can't see any connection with the BASTON/BADSTONE and our James TRAIES, but just thought I'd mention that the person living in St Pancras and James TRAIES had the same occupation.

Bernice   

[gardenerbob]

Dear Bernice,

I feel that the John Baston on the Baston website is related to Daniel Baston the executor. The area of London fits, the occupation fits, and his roots in Ottery St Mary about 10 miles from Exeter fit. I reckon you've once again come up with an important lead that may help unravel the identity of the John Traies who married Rose Badstone in Exeter - there is a strong possibility he is the same John Traies who married Sarah Pidlar and remarried after Sarah's death and is the father of John Traies of the 1787 will and I think that makes him great grandfather of James. If so John Baston would not be a blood relative of James but related by the second marriage.  As you say Baston and Batstone/Badstone are almost certainly different spellings/pronunciations of the same name.

Incidentally I had looked at that Baston website, saw the intro about a Baston family from Bampton Oxfordshire and dismissed the site as relating to an unconnected family but unlike you was not thorough enough to scroll down to read the section about other Baston families in London. It is excellent that they have taken the trouble to post that information on their website.

It does looks as though John Baston came to London after James.

More research is needed on the Bastons to see if/how John is related to Rose Badstone.

Very interesting  lead,

Bob