TREASE/TRAIES continued...

[kerryb]

Hi Bernice

I thought I recognised Star Street!  So a picture of him in the same area is beginning to been drawn up.

Kerry

[samtraies]

Hi folks

Steve managed to get to Guildhall today and check some of James Traies entries in commercial directories.   

Between 1810-1821, there were no entries for "traies" in Robson's; Kent's or Holden's Directories.

The first directory James appears in is 1822, as Traise:

1822, Traise, Jas, Tin Plate Worker and Brazier, 37 Queen St, Bryanstone Square (Robson's New Directory for London: Commercial Directory, Street Guide and Carriers List. 4th Edition).

From here, he appears consistently in the Robson's, Pigot's and Kent's directories as either Jas, James or J. Traies and always at 37 Queen St. Bryanstone Square, up to 1833.

Steve is going to check 1833 to 1850 tomorrow.


Also, just one thought about Hannah and Ann Sutton... If they were 2 different people, wouldn't it have been unlikely for the second wife to have her child named after the first wife (ie Hannah 1825/1826)? Or perhaps this wasn't unusual..?

Cheers,
Sam

[kerryb]

Hi Sam

Great news, at least we know where James was for those years. 

This thought about the name Hannah has crossed my mind, but if it is a family name then it might have been used anyway.   

Kerry

[gardenerbob]

The Trade Directory information seems to indicate following research:-

Baptisms of James and possibly Henry in Stratford and Mile End area 1816 - 1822
Baptisms of Jane, Hannah, Emma and possibly Henry in Marylebone area from 1819
Funeral of Hannah after 1825 in Marylebone area

I'll visit LMA and examine :-
St Dunstans and St Mary le Bow registers for James and Henry baptisms.
Marylebone area churches for other baptisms and funeral of Ann nee Sutton. Although possibly done already -  no harm in revisiting.

Son Samuel was presumably working with James when he married in Christchurch, St Marylebone. By 1841 he was working in Shoreditch (Hackney) - may be there is some connection with his father's marriage there in 1831.

Bob

[kerryb]

Bob

That might explain why Samuel moved to the Shoreditch area and remained there if there was a family link somewhere.

Kerry

[kerryb]

By the way I keep meaning to ask have any of you done any research into tin plate workers?

I contacted the guild but beyond the job itself they weren't able to give me any specific details.  Does anyone know of any good books, a google search brought up zilch and I was wondering would James and Samuel have worked in a factory or a small workshop or did they work from home - workshop in the garden sort of arrangement?

Kerry

[oldmanriver]

Bob and Sam

Good luck with your searching.  I looked at the St. Mary. Marylebone baptisms some months ago (filmed by the Latter Day Saints) but only found those already known to us on the IGI.  I did not find a burial record.

Always worth another check though if time permits.


By the way Kerry, I forgot to say thanks for the certificate for the burial of Samuel TRAIES and wife.

Regards
Bernice

[samtraies]

Hello

We have just a few more details to add about James, and one correction.

Firstly the correction: his address was Bryanston Square, not Bryanstone Square (without the "e").

A quick note about the organisation of these trade directories in the 1830s. There is a  name index that lists trades people in alphabetical order; a street index that lists all the trades people for a particular street (eg. all the business owners in Queen St.); and some also have a trade index that orders people by profession (eg all the Tin Plate Workers)

In 1834, James appears again at 37 Queen Street, Bryanston Square (in Robsons Directory).  Unlike Harrowby Street today, Queen Street in those days seems to be a shopping strip:  The street index lists a baker at no  1 , a builder at 2 , a shoemaker at no 24 , a coal merchant at 39 , a pub, "The Duke of York" at number 45 etc.

In 1835 and 1836, James is still listed in the name index of Robson's, but another business is listed in the street index at 37 Queen Street. I suspect James actually moved out of Queen St. in 1835 but the name index wasn't corrected.

There are no entries for James in any of the directories in 1837 and 1838. In 1839 and 1840 James appears at "Kensington Gravel Pits", but is listed as "Trale, James". He doesn't appear in the name index, but is listed in the trade index under "Tin Plate Workers" (Pigots and Co, National Commercial Street Directory of London) and in the street index under "Kensington Gravel Pits"

1839 appears to be the first time that Kensington Gravel Pits appears in the  Pigots Directory. So it's possible that James moved as early as 1835, but perhaps Kensington wasn't developed enough to be included in a London directory.

Cheers
Sam

[gardenerbob]

My visit to LMA yielded nothing on the missing baptisms but will revisit.

I now begin to understand Bernice's comments on the difficulty of searching London registers. I thought I had done sufficient prep work but before next visit will inspect the LMA collections info on the National Archives Database. Parishes merge, split, church and district names change etc. I had difficulty identifying some churches.

If Stratford Le Bow registers are the same as St Mary Bromley and St Leonard Bromley High St,  they are indexed at LMA - the index yields nothing. The registers appear not to be on IGI - the Mary Le Bow church on IGI is I think in the City.

The St Dunstans Stepney registers are at LMA but are large and have no index. They are also on IGI but a search of IGI yields nothing.

I started searching the St Marylebone burial records - 1825, 1826, and part 1827 but takes about 30 mins per year and although clear the spidery handwriting makes even Jones look like Traies at a glance. Also searched records for several smaller churches in area.

I inspected Samuel's and Susan Traies marriage register entries to get the witness names. Susan, sister of the artist, married at Shoreditch and from Internet searches her husband's family appear to number several artists such as  Breton Riviere. I also inspected the baptism register entries we do have for James children but that gives us no more information.

I have updated the website with research done and further information from Sam on Frederick Traies's family.

Bob