TREASE/TRAIES continued...

[oldmanriver]

Hi everyone

After a few days of inactivity on this topic, it seems to be full steam ahead again.

I've collected several references since joining rootschat but haven't sent - not sure of their interest and what was already known to Bob.  Fitting it all together must be a mammoth task!!

Firstly, some bits and pieces about William TRAIES the artist.  There are loads of references to him, these are just a few I've jotted down:-

Devon Notes and Queries -
33 ( 1977 pages 306 - 308
The ancestry of a Crediton-born artist, by G E TREASE

Wm TRAIES, Crediton and Exeter 1789 - 1872, artist Page 290 (Must check source of this, obviously incomplete but
almost certainly from another edition of Devon Notes and Queries.

Exeter. Holy Trinity.  Fire insurance Policy of Henry GERVIS of Thorverton, solicitor in the West of England Fire office. of 49 Magdelen Street, occupied by William TRAIES, artist for £400.
(NB Samuel TRAIES and Jane TOWNSEND were also living in Magelen Street at the time of their deaths in 1840)

William TRAIES b. 1789 Crediton Devon died 1872 at Topsham Road (the artist).  Think this came from the Sherborne and Yeovil Mercury - will check!

I've got several references to Seamens registers which may be of use seeing some of the recent posts, refer to Naval personnel (if you do not already have them). Any of them can be ordered on-line if interested.

Admiralty - Royal Navy Registers of Seamen's Services
19 Dec 1906
ADM/188/860
George Frederick Traies Green. born Brixton, London.
Official Number J106765  Piece 106501 - 107000 Image 265/265

25  Sept 1857
ADM/188/121
William John TRAYS.  born Plymouth, Devon
Official Number 103201 Piece 103001 - 103500 Image 200/196

15 Dec 1902
ADM 188/595
Arthur TRAIES, born Kensington, London
Official Number F17569 Piece 17501 - 18000 Image 69/69

30 Sept 1881
ADM/188/765
Elder William TRAIES, born kentish Town
Official Number J59465 Piece 59001 - 59500 Image 465/463

I'll send more of my findings another time.

I'm surprised I have not heard that the registers of Marylebone that I requested through the local LDS Library ages ago have still not arrived.  Geoff rang them last week, but all they could say was they will contact us as soon as they arrive.  Other films we have ordered in the past have arrived in about three weeks.  Marylebone must be in great demand.

I have not had any success in contacting the Hussars Forum, I mentioned some time ago and am most unimpressed with the site.  I don't think it is working properly.  I also sent an e-mail to the address given for enquiries and it just came straight back to me - unable to deliver.  I had hoped to have learnt a bit more about where James TRAIES would have been when he served with them.

That's it for now

Bernice

[kerryb]

Bernice

Hi, nice to hear from you, I've been looking at another of my families over the last week just for a change.  I've just emailed to you the two certificates that arrived last week.  Something nice in your inbox. 

Kerry

[oldmanriver]

Hi

Just a few things:-

Deb - Thanks for the reference to John ROFFE, born Tonbridge that you posted recently, found in the Royal Hospital, Chelsea, Soldiers Service Documents.  We were aware of it but thanks for sending it anyway.    At the moment we have got no further back than knowing that the father of our George was called John, and discovered that there were more than one John ROFFE's in Tonbridge at the time.  He could well turn out to be an elder brother of our George or maybe a cousin.

Bob - On your mystery TRAIES page, you mention George TRAIES of the Boadicea.  I thought that Twilight had a good idea who this was.  She sent a message sometime ago, saying, she had seen the will of George TRAIES and it said "now belonging to HMS Ship Boadicea.  He left all to his mother Ann TRAIES now living in Stonehouse, Plymouth.  The mother was also the sole executrix". (Will dated 24/1/1804).

Kerry - At last, just received a phone call saying the Marylebone film we ordered has now arrived. For various reasons, the earliest we can go and view it is next Wednesday.  I hope it will help us and we have ordered the right one!!  There were so many different films listed under Marylebone.  I'm sure the one we ordered is already indexed which should help.

Bye

Bernice

[oldmanriver]

Hi again

Forget to say that I have also written a letter today to the Archivist at The Kings Royal Hussar's Museum.  Maybe we will learn where the regiment was stationed in the years that James TRAIES was a member.  It may yield a few more snippets about James TRAIES service as well - you never know, it was worth a try!

Bernice

[kerryb]

Bernice

I hope you get a reply from the Hussars, could be some interesting information.  Let us know when and if you get a reply and good luck with the Marylebone records, lets hope we get some answers.

Kerry

[gardenerbob]

Bernice,

Thank you very much for the information. I've looked for an Ann who could have a son George on the Boadicea but can't find her. I will try and sort out the remaining family tree documents I have including that for Miriam Traies's family. Deb's post with the Morgan children referenced as sister-in-law in the census return seems to indicate we are missing 
at least one daughter on this tree.  The G.E.Trease in the first document you reference is the George Edward in this family history
http://www.trease.org.uk/trf/trf21g_fd
His original research from pre-internet days is the basis of the information on the website.

Apparently many of George Frederick Williams paintings are held at Southampton City Art Gallery - I've added a hyperlink to the website. I can't find any paintings of his cottage - Bath House - but there is one of the view from it - picture 787 - which you can see on the Internet. It is shame he did not do portraits!  Many of the of the pictures were donated by Mr & Mrs Alfred Fellows - some as early as 1895. |Many are of Wales. I think it possible that the Fellows may have been relatives of Elizabeth or Charles who were bequeathed these when they died.

Bob

[deb usa]

Hi everyone

from Bob: "Deb's post with the Morgan children referenced as sister-in-law in the census return seems to indicate we are missing at least one daughter on this tree " I have found the Morgan sisters .... went back to 1851 and rechecked their POB ..it was Wales

1841;
Hay, Breconshire, Wales
Red Lion street
Elizabeth Morgan 48 N
John Morgan 14 Y (transcribed as being 46)
Louisa Morgan 5 Y
Hepizebu? Morgan Y
Jemimah Morgan 2 Y
There is a Elizabeth PRICE with them , 20 F S , No

next door
Susanna Price 66 Ind NO
Also in the same street is a Sarah Price and her family , she is not born in county and is an Innkeeper.

Because of Elizabeth Morgan's age , I am sure she must have had other children... I looked around and found a Charlotte Morgan aged 25 and a Ann Morgan , 14, Not born in county also in Hay, Brecon.
Also  William Morgan (40) and Hugh Morgan (35) , both shoemakers, living with them is a Thomas PRICE 25, ag lab.


IGI has this ;
LOUISA MORGAN, born ; 13 OCT 1834 d/o John Morgan and Elizth.
2 christenind dates ;
30 NOV 1834   Saint John English Wesleyan, Brecon ...extracted
13 NOV 1834   Saint John English Wesleyan, Brecon ...extracted


HEPHZIBAH MORGAN born ; 27 DEC 1835 d/o John Morgan and Elizth.
chr;  21 FEB 1836   Saint John English Wesleyan, Brecon ..extracted
ALSO .... 
Hephzibah Morgan b 27 DEC 1835   Hay, Brecon, Wales d/o John Morgan and Elizabeth
chr;  21 FEB 1836   Paternoster Row Wesleyan Methodist Registry, London extracted

So possibly John who is with elizabeth in 1841 . could possibly be her husband age 46 ... but then why would he not appear as the 'head' , ie; first to be enumerated?
maybe someone could recheck and see ...


oo found her in 1851 ... when the Morgan sisters are with Elizabeth Traies (USA) and Jane Traies (crediton ) in warwickshire.

1851
Red Lion Street, Hay
Elizabeth Morgan head wid 57 Mul??stress b IDE, DEVON
Margaret 15 a servant with her

1861
Back lane , hay, Brecon
Elizabeth Morgan head wid 69 retired maltstress b Ide Devon
Hephzibah dau unm 25 head of boarding and day school b Hay
Jemima dau unm 22 assistant in school
Grace Everard boarder 9 schilar b whitechapel London
Lucy Jones baorder  8 scholar b Brecon
plua a servant

Do you think Elizabeth Morgan = Elizabeth Traies b c 1794 Ide Devon ...

I will look further

deb 
 

 

[deb usa]

helloooo everyone

Been trying to find John Morgan's wife elizabeth (possibly Traies). Scrolled through all of Wales and London and some of Devon .... can't see a thing ... maybe this was Elizabeth's second marriage ...

anyway , fortunately , we have jemima who was born after 1837 ...woohoo...hopefully her birth cert will help

Jemima Morgan
Dec q 1838. Hay, Breconshire, Herefordshire, Powys, Radnorshire
vol 26 p 281

Also I think by 1871 elizabeth has died ... i found Hephzibah Morgan in Upper Swinton, Worcestershire in 1871. She is 35 unmarried and the Mistress of a ladies school . She seems to be following in Elizabeth B Baltimore, USA, steps.

deb 

[gardenerbob]

Hi Deb,

This is all very puzzling - getting a post registration birth cert looks a good. solution. The other thing would be to check for wills which I suspect they may have left.

The sister-in-law relationship for the Morgan girls is obviously impossible - that I can cope with - but trying to work out what the relationship should be seems very problematical. You'd think that the relationship would be very close to Elizabeth b. Baltimore.

Elizabeth Morgan can't be a daughter of John and Elizabeth nee Kerslake - they lived in Crediton (Ide is effectively Exeter) and named a daughter b. 1806 Elizabeth. James and Betsey are unlikely to have named another daughter Elizabeth and they lived in Dartmouth. Like you I can't find a marriage or birth on IGI for a suitable person named TRAIES  but have not looked very hard yet - could be the usual transcription errors - and there could be an earlier marriage - marriage abroad ...etc.

One possible explanation is that the Elizabeth b Baltimore is in the wrong tree - possibly should be in the Miriam TRAIES tree but there is no immediately obvious place there to fit her.

Firstly I am going to re-examine the tree I've just posted to see if I can spot any other way of fitting it together - the wills seemed to prove the tree was right but maybe it is not as watertight as it appears.

Maybe the census return is simply wrong and there is no blood relationship but that seems very unlikely.

A very puzzled Bob.