TREASE/TRAIES continued...

[deb usa]

Morning

I wonder if this is Williams first marriage ? ... he too signs his name Wm and not William

William Traias = Sarah Strong
12 march 1780
St Olave, Bermondsey
Batchelor & Spinster OTP
Married by Banns
both sign
witnesses;
John Cunse and Ann Mellin

deb

[oldmanriver]

Hi all

Can't spend too long on this but just two more observations made yesterday.

Burial - 5 April 1822 at St. Marylebone (Westminster)
Hannah PRAIES but looking at original it is TRAIES.  Parents names are not given but the age is under 1 year.  I suggest that this is an infant of our James and Hannah, but as she did not survive, the name of Hannah was given to another daughter in about 1826 who was still at home with parents in 1851.

We already think that the Jane baptised in Old Church, St. Pancras in 1809 died in infancy as that is why another child was named Jane in about 1823 (who later married ROFFE).  I did not find any burial for the first Jane, but the burials are only indexed from 1813, so this could account for not finding the burial of the first Jane. 

In the same way this start date of 1813 could be the reason that no burial was found for the first wife of William TRAIES who must have died before 1802 or his second wife Jane who could well have died before 1813.

Bye for now
Bernice

[deb usa]

Hi

Re Henry Traies = Sarah Ovens

I can see all the baptisms for their children except for Frederick Henry b 1843

I have also found this, which is really interesting.
Henry Traies is a tin plate worker and according to Bob's site lived in Notting Hill, High Street. He married Sarah Ovens in 1843

Now look at this baptism;

ANN JANE TRAIES d/o HENRY and JANE
bapt; 20 June 1842
born 25 May 1842
Henry = TIN PLATE WORKER
address: NOTTING HILL, HIGH STREET

deb 

[gardenerbob]

Hi Deb,

One interpretation is that this is the daughter of William Henry Roffe and Jane Traies. She was baptised just over two weeks before they were married in the same church and died shortly after - William Roffe was present at death per death certificate :-
http://www.trease.org.uk/traies/txt/txt17s_ec.htm#20wr_j

The father's name given on the baptism record is curious - it may have been a clumsy effort at disguising the truth. I vaguely remember that  this may have been briefly discussed many many posts ago.

Bob

[gardenerbob]

Re the Mary Ann Frais burial. I can't match this with any baptisms found so far. There is another reference to Hoxton but that is the marriage of William Traies the artist's sister - see below. Her father mentions daughter Susan Riviere in his will so this marriage is almost certainly correct.

Susan TRAIES
1798   c. 08Jul1798 Crediton Sarah daur William and Mary TRAIES (IGI C050743)
1828   m. 10Nov1828 St. Leonards, Shoreditch, London (p63 of St Leonards parish register mf LMA)
Joseph RIVIERE of this Parish widower and Susan TRAIES of this Parish spinster were married in the Chapel of St John the Baptist Hoxton by Banns this 10th day of November 1828 by Walter Kelly curate both sign their names in presence of G Garrow (?), H Benyon (?)
NOTE: The RIVIERE family may have been of Huguenot origin and featured several Victorian artists including Briton Riviere and his sister Annette Louise

I'll add the Mary Ann burial record to the list of unmatched TR**S references to be resolved.

The William Traias marriage possibly refers to our William - I'll put that one on record also.

Regards,

Bob

Hi again

James Traies lived in Queen Street

I have found an unusual amount of Traies people's burials/deaths in Queen st circa 1823 ..seems that there may have been small pox going around. I am not sure if they belong to our Traies family but thought I would post.

All QUEENS STREET, St Luke, Chelsea

Thomas Traies bc  1821 24 Oct 1823  age 2
Jane Traies bc 1819 17 Oct 1823  age 4 sm pox ..possibly child of William and Hannah Traies
Thomas Traies bc 1799 24 Oct 1823 age 24  sm pox ...

William Traies bc 1758 14 Feb 1840

here's one that def. looks like Trais on original
Mary Ann Frais bc 1819 20 Oct 1839 Saint John The Baptist, Hoxton Hackney
Chatham Gardens

deb 

[gardenerbob]

Dropped into National Archives Kew briefly this morning and looked at the microfilm record of William Traies. Unfortunately all there was was a small slip - probably an index record - it merely tells us that William Traies Sergt of 28th Regiment became a Chelsea Out Pensioner on 25th Sept 1819.
Don't fully understand what the system was but I suppose that prior to 25th Sept. he was an In Pensioner ie living in Army accommodation but after that he must have been considered to have recovered enough to be able to leave and get an out-pensioner pension. Quite an exciting change of life to set up home with a new wife and start a family in one's early sixties!

Bob

PS Have updated site details for William.

[deb usa]

Hi everyone

I found this baptism re; Mary Ann Trais/Frais bc 1819 died 1839... not sure if she is 'ours'

Mary Ann TRAYS d/o John (bricklayer) and Ann
New Court Peters lane
June 27th, 1819
St Sepulchre, Holborn, City of London

can't see a marriage between a John Trays/Traies/Tra* and Ann although what does pop up are the banns read for JOHN TRAIES and ANN SUTTON. ( which we know to be James Traies and Ann Sutton)

there is a later marriage for John Trais, bricklayer, widow, 69  to a mary Ann Langley  in 1852.

deb

[gardenerbob]

Hi Deb,

There is a Traies, on the speculative tree not on website, who fits this one in that:-
1. His father was a mason, so bricklayer is a probable occupation.
2. He has a wife Anne so that is a definite match.
3. They marry in Crediton in 1814 so date of baptism fits.
4. No record of him in Crediton has been found after the baptism of son George in 1814.
5. His son George eventually moves to London (but appears to be in Crediton in 1841).

Details below:-
John TRAIES
1793   c. 22Dec1793 Crediton, Devon. John son John [mason] and Hannah TRAIES (IGI C050743)
1814   m. 4Feb1814 Crediton, Devon. John TRAIES and Ann POPHAM (IGI M050741)

Ann POPHAM
?1841   Census Crediton Ance Traie 55 FS Yes (entry appears to be Anie TRAIES)
Nothing more known.

   George TRAIES
   1814   c. 27Feb1814 Crediton, Devon. son John and Ann TRAIES (IGI C050743)
   1841    Census George Traies, age 25, Devon, England, Crediton, Devon.
   1851   Census St Lukes, Finsbury 57 Golden Lane (HO107/1522 263 31)
              George Trees head unm 37 lab b Crediton
              with other unrelated people living with him
   1853   m. 27Apr1853 St. Thomas Charterhouse, Finsbury, London  George TRAIES and Martha HOLIGROVE(IGI M042071)

This John's father appears to be a cousin of the artist - his father John married Hannah Snow and was brother of William, the artist's father, who appears to have married Mary Hooper.

I will have a look at some of the other Trayes trees to see if there is any other Tr**s who fits but I reckon you have found yet another missing Traies. I feel sure it is one of the West Country TR**S lot.  I haven't looked at the above tree for a year or two but I notice Golden Lane appearing there - I am sure I remember that address from something else.... I'll check on that as well.

Bob

[gardenerbob]

Hi again,

I can't find any other John and Ann marriages - doesn't mean there aren't any but in the absence of anything more that marriage is the best fit. John's brother Samuel left a very strange will - he had lost contact with his son and thought he may have joined the army - this will does not mention his brother John but it doesn't mention John's son George either so I think he was omitted because either he was financially OK or maybe he was not close to hand.
http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/Topsham/SamuelTraies1841.html

Both the Golden Lane references were burials at the burial ground there but they don't seem directly related. One of them :-
Susan TREAYS 1852 London, buried at Golden Lane 12Sep1852 age 71 Address Caroline Place Goswell Street
is one of the Bristol Trayes family -  the death was already recorded but had never been linked to the burial - she must be the Susan nee Arscott in tree below:-
http://www.trease.org.uk/trt/trt17w_gg.htm#18w_sa

The other one is a mystery:-
Ann TRAIS 1852 London buried 20th June 1852 Golden Lane age 84 so born 1768 AAD 10 Cherry Tree Court White Cross Lane
In 1824 William Masters Traies and George Nangle silversmiths of Cherry Tree Court - partnership was dissolved. William's sister Betsey had married a George Nangle. The AAD appears to be the same one as appears in this family tree but it may be just a coincidence
http://www.trease.org.uk/traies/txt/txt17w_mb.htm#18j_em

The only suitable London based death I can find for a John Traies is:-
Q1 1862 John Trays Hackney (Vol 1b 264)
there is also a Q4 1871 Pancras Ann Trees age 86 (vol 1b 29)
but it is impossible to draw any firm conclusions.

Interestingly the John Trais marriage in 1852 would match the said John Traies on age if the age was 59 instead of 69.

Regards,

Bob