TREASE/TRAIES continued...

[deb usa]

IGI, extracted

William Traies = MARIA RICHARDS DOWNMAN
 19 APR 1825   Holy Trinity, Exeter

do you think these might be your Traies rellies?

deb
 

[kerryb]

From what I remember of Bob's tree they are on another line in London, I can'f find the right part of the tree on his site at the moment http://www.trease.org.uk/traies/txt/txt00.htm

Kerry

[deb usa]

Blimey ...I need to reread .... 

[kerryb]

Found them on my paper copy they are of the Crediton line so not linked to my line until a long way back. 

Kerry

[gardenerbob]

Dear Kerry,

Thanks for raising the the unsolved mystery of the 1831 Bunhill burial of William Traies of Powell Street - I'd clean forgotten about it.
Of the TRAIES family we know of he could theoretically be a son of  William Masters TRAIES and Henriette Louisa KIRBY
http://www.trease.org.uk/traies/txt/txt17w_mb.htm#18j_em
or he could be the son of William TRAIES and Hannah KNIGHT on the other branch of the family but both appear improbable.
but there are two other unplaced TRAIES references:-
1. The seaman’s will of George TRAIES of HMS Boadicea 1804. George clearly signs his name as TRAIES and leaves his property to his beloved mother Ann TRAIES living in Stonehouse Plymouth (but there were Trayes/Treays families there including an Ann)
2. Elizabeth TRAIES (allegedly signed that way) who witnesses two marriages at the church of St Matthew Bethnal Green on 27Jul1834 – John LAKE & Jane Welch TUCKER and Mary Ann TUCKER & Robert Francis SCAIF.  John LAKE and his wife subsequently named a daughter born in Southwark Mar Q 1847 Elizabeth Trayes LAKE. It could just be a coincidence but James’s uncle Joseph TRAIES was like his brother William (whom we now know had links to this part of London) a soldier and his wife’s maiden name was Mary LAKE and his family seem to disappear leaving no trace.

It is just possible that the above named are not true TRAIES and are of another TR**S family. When next in LMA I’ll look up the St Matthew Bethnal Green marriage and baptism records and also see if I can find William Traies's baptism.
Does anyone know where Powell Street was in 1831?

Regards,

Bob

[oldmanriver]

Hi all,

Bob - If Powell Street still exists it is now probably known by another name.  I believe the LMA has a book showing a street index for London which shows the name changes that took place over the years.  Alternatively you may find it by looking at the street indexes available for some of the census returns.

Kerry - I have ancestors buried in the Bunhill Fields Burial Grounds.  They lived in Islington and Norton Folgate.  Norton Folgate (Falgate) is a small area bordered by Bethnal Green, Shoreditch and Spitalfields.  What do the letters FindMyPast mean?  I don't think I have come across this abbreviation before.

All - I went to the LDS Family History Centre yesterday and examined the films I had ordered for the 1821 and 1831 census returns for Marylebone.  I'm afraid they did not really supply us with much more information, except confirming that the TRAIES family were at 37 Queen Street in both returns.

Although they seemed to be the main occupiers of the property, there were actually 4 families living in the house.  All the houses in the street seemed to contain more than one family (usually 3 or 4).

The 1821 census just listed the name of the main family, then columns of details such as number of families in house, males in house including children, females in house including children, no of families employed in trade, manufacturer or handicraft, or agriculture.  At 37 Queen Street, the number of males under the age of 5 were 3, for ages 5-10 were 4, for ages 10-15 were 3, ages 15-20 were 1, ages 20-30 were 0, ages 30-40 was 1 and 40-50 were 3.  The numbers for females under the age of 5 were 3, ages 5-10 were 2, for ages age 10-15 was 1, for age 15-20 was 1, for age 20-30 was 1, for age 30-40 were 3, for age 40-50 were 2 and for age 60-70 there was 1.  Totals were 15 males and 14 females and 29 in total.  The name TRAIES was actually spelt TRAILES.

The details on the 1831 census were similar but the name of TRAIES was spelt TRACE.  There were still four families in the house, but no way of knowing if it was the same four families that lived there in 1821.  Ages were not given on this census but there were 6 males and 9 females in the house (presumably if it was the same four families, some of them had now died, were in service or had married as there were now only 15 people in total, just half the number of occupants of ten years earlier.

It is not possible to know how many were actually members of the TRAIES family in either census.

Best wishes
Bernice

[kerryb]

Hi Bernice

FindMyPast - Findmypast.co.uk, sorry I'm always being reminded at work not to use abbreviations all the time, it is bad form.

They have a city of london burial index, I think I might try TRACE and TRAILES and see if anything comes up.  I wonder if that might what we need to use to find the mysterious Hannah?

So we know there was a TRAIES family there in 1821 and 1831, now how the heck can we find out who they were??

Kerry

[gardenerbob]

Hi Berrnice,

Although the census returns don't give a lot of genealogical info. they do tell us more about how James's' family lived. The buildings in Queen Street seem to have been tenements and presumably James occupied the best position in the 37 Queen St Tenement.

I assume he is the male occupant aged 30 - 40 in the 1821 return and presumably his wife is one of the similarly aged females. I can't find any London tenement museums but if you visit New York the Manahattan Lower East Side Tenement Museum portrays tenement life in a very vivid way - it is a really interesting visit.

I find it all very fascinating. It seems that  James grandfather died young and his family fell on hard times unlike other branches of the family.

Bob

[kerryb]

I find it fascinating too.  A tenement museum was featured, I think in Glasgow in an episode of Who do you think are and coming from a rural area as I do, I was astounded how people lived in the cities in those days.

I'm glad that you think James occupied the best position, I hate to think of him being anywhere else.  I feel quite close to the old whatsit and his many wives. 

Kerry