Patrish Scavenger Hunt.....Everybody Welcome to Join In.

[deb usa]

Hi Pat

I have looked at 1841 again ...and I cannot see Emmanuel anywhere ...he is driving me nuts ....

I think I asked yesterday about them maybe marrying later in their relationship ... It just seems to go against everything that he would not marry her and make his children legal ...

will look for later marriages ...

deb

[cathayb]

do you want to know something about jewish courtship?the betrothal is very long,maybe they could nt wait to consumate!!!also they might not have known how to make marriage legal in this country.where did they eventually marry.was there a synagog there in 1841?just a thought.just passing through be back later.cathayb

[patrish]

Hi Cathayb

Unfortunately I have never found one for Emmanuel and Susan 

[deb usa]

Hi Pat

Have gone through marriages ... cannot see any .... The only susannah that pops up is Susanna Plowman (1854 marriage) ... I looked for marriages of a susanna palmer to a mr. Plowman ... nothing ....

deb 

[cathayb]

just a bit og gen.the rabbis didnt have to inform the english registrars of a jewish marriage until 1845 so unlikely to find a marriage befor then.the other thing is you will get a marriage cert previous to that at the beth din london but it will be in hebrew and there is a fee.the only good thing is that though it will have their jewish names on it,it should also have their english names.have you noticed on jewish certs they include the jewish names near the bottom of cert?a jewish marriage is a complicatd affair.they would not only have to produce bith certs but proof of perants marriage aswell and proof that the perants and they were jewish or produce jewish conversion cert.a mixed marriage is not allowed.they would have to prove conversion.there woukld also be a contract set up between the man and woman at the ceremony.  cathayb

[cathayb]

bearing all that in mind its quite easy to see why there may not have been a legal marriage particularly if an uncle was not keeping a close eye on his nephews or neices here without their perants.and were they born in this country anyway?both of them?

[patrish]

Both born in Whitechapel




Cathayb  this is  an extract from the researcher at the Beth din.

"I am sorry to report that although I searched the registers of all the Ashkenazic Orthodox synagogues serving London in th 1850's whose secretaries had the authority to perform marriages, I did not come across the Phillips-Palmer entry you require"

While is could be that this couple had a "stille huppah" (lit.silent canopy) i.e a ceremony under private religious auspices without civil sanction."

Does that make sense to you    and if they did would the be legally married      I read it as not .

[patrish]

Both born in Whitechapel




Cathayb  this is  an extract from the researcher at the Beth din.

"I am sorry to report that although I searched the registers of all the Ashkenazic Orthodox synagogues serving London in th 1850's whose secretaries had the authority to perform marriages, I did not come across the Phillips-Palmer entry you require"

While it could be that this couple had a "stille huppah" (lit.silent canopy) i.e a ceremony under private religious auspices without civil sanction."

Does that make sense to you    and if they did would the be legally married      I read it as not .

[patrish]

Sorry  but I cant seem  delete the above duplicate post