Patrish Scavenger Hunt.....Everybody Welcome to Join In.

[cathayb]

hay debs where did you get that birth and death info and all the gen on.it is really helpful.i have never seen anything so good to do with jews.it may help me in my own search.  the last bit haver ......levi again points to the rabbis.and i notice pinchas zeileg ben hal.take note of the ben.zeileg looks german.i wonder if they came from germany originally.cathay

[Brambletye]

Hi Cathay, just read your last few posts - do you reckon Philip Phillips only called himself that because he needed an English name and just made it so he had forename matching surname?

I'm fumbling about in the dark here, no experience of Jewish names, but having seen a few called Jacob Jacobs, Isaac Isaacs, etc., I'm wondering if that's how it went...

[deb usa]

I agree with cathay ..DebbieG has got a winner I think ...Look at the address...

well done Debbie 

[Brambletye]

oooooo Guys ...

on the 1871 census for Emanuel and Susan their surname is Philips but there is a surname under it that has been crossed out ...looks like  Susan PHILYM??, Emmanuel on previous page looks like Philyss ..but can see it is also PHILIYM??

is this how they pronounced it or is it their name?

RG10/412 59 18

deb  

I had another look at this, it looks as the crossed out part could have been Phibym.

Could the "bym" bit be an enumerator's misheard Ben something? with a later substitution if he had to go back and check?

[cathayb]

sorry to put a dampner but phibum or what ever i dont think is jewish even with a bad accent.i would stick with philips.jacob jacobs isaac isaac yes sure could be there attempts for a surname.rockerfella took his from the name of the chalet he was staying in.how they came by there surnames has no rules.it would make it easier if they had rules.you could have ben phillips but not phillipben.oh i dont know if i make sense.being a jew married to a romany with m,y romany kids is hard enough to uinderstand at the best of times.back then though jews had had it hard in the eastern bloc thats why they came here.they didnt suffer the persecution here until much much later.oh i made a mistake isaac is jewish of course but its not a priestly name.the other thing to remeber like roms jews are very tribal and what line you come from is quite important.cathayb

[cathayb]

the great synagogue london has there rrecords with family search,if you cant get them on line you can order them to your library and have alook.another good place is london beth din.  beth means house by the way.dont ask me what din means.i dont know.cathay.where does catherine/caroline come from?place of birth?

[deb usa]

I have just found this

Name Solomon PHILLIPS237
Birth abt 1796, Christ Church, Spitalfields, Whitechapel, London1107
Birth Memo Age given as 61 on death certificate implying a birth of about 1796.
Death 25 Oct 1857, 15 Swan Court, Middlesex St., London240,1108
Death Memo informant: L. Isaacs in attendance, 13 Swan Court, Whitechapel
Burial 26 Oct 1857, Great Synagogue Burial Ground240
Occupation general dealer (1857)1108
Residence 1857, 15 Swan Court, Middlesex St., London240
Religious Name Pinchas Zelig ben R[ev] or Haver Menahem HaLevi238
Father Nathan ? PHILLIPS

 

Debbie

in 1851; Catherine Phillips is 50 and b Whitechapel.

just had a look through Swan court in 1851 and there is a ZELIG PHILLIPS at no. 10 swan Cort

Zelig PHILLIPS 53 porter in general b Christ Church
Ann wife 51
Nathan 20 watchmaker
Bar?? son 17 cap maker
Esther 17
Kitty 10
Joel son 6
everyone else born whitechapel

Do you think PINCHAS could be their 'real'name?

deb

[DebbieG]

Yes they are in Swan court in 1841 as well

swan court 1841

Ann Phillips 40 
Barnett Phillips 8 
Catherine Phillips 1 
Eliza Phillips 14 
Esther Phillips 6 
Neam Phillips 10 
Phillips Phillips 4 
Zealig Phillips 40 
Zeadock Phillips 12 

I have been checking into the availability of the great synagog records and it does not seem that they are available on-line so it would probably mean a trip to a LDS centre,  but it may well be worthwhile.

Debbie G

[DebbieG]

I have Emmanuel's Permission for Interment 24.7.1876, it says on his grave
Mendele son of Uri   would that help me at all do you think. 

It is also recorded as Stranger (not a paid up synagogue member)

So it seems that whatever he called himself in english Emmanueals fathers jewish name was Uri - is that right Cathay?

Coo - we don't half learn doing these hunts - last week I was reading up of Romanys - this week its 19th century jews!

Debbie