Patrish Scavenger Hunt.....Everybody Welcome to Join In.

[Brambletye]

This looks promising...


1841 Tower Hamlets, No. 2 Frying Pan Alley

Caroline Phillips 45 Dealer F
Reusel 20 Dealer F
Sarah 15 F
Emanuel 10 Y
Simon 8 Y

and at same address, separate household:

Rebecca Phillips 40 Fruiterer Y
Mary 80 Y

HO/107/710/13/45/18

Added: is Caroline an error for Catherine, and husband away on business etc? or is she already widowed?

[cathayb]

i am surprised you are making so much headway,well done.i was and still am really stuck on my jews.if you come across any godgrey/willey/thorpe while looking for philips please preety please let me know.i am just glad at the moment that jewish/gypsies have been mentioned.i am off to see what other search helps i can find.   menotti street,bethnal green was a very large road and housed alot of jews.  cathay b

[deb usa]

oooooo Guys ...

on the 1871 census for Emanuel and Susan their surname is Philips but there is a surname under it that has been crossed out ...looks like  Susan PHILYM??, Emmanuel on previous page looks like Philyss ..but can see it is also PHILIYM??

is this how they pronounced it or is it their name?

RG10/412 59 18

deb  

[Brambletye]

Hi Deb,

I see it...both look like Philym - their "real" name maybe, Anglicised to Phillips...?

[patrish]

Wow guys so much interest and help already thank you  where do I begin 

You definitely have the correct Samuel and Hannah (Levy) with a son Angel, what an unusual name for a boy.

Cathayb you are much more kn owedgable about  the Jewish religion that me .

I had no idea of any Jewish connection  until I started my FH with my Gt. Grandfather Jacob Phillips who on his marriage is given as John, I spent years looking for the wrong person.

As to the "marriage" of Emmanuel and Sarah (Palmer) I have had the registers of all the Ashkenazic Orthodox synagogues serving London searched and nothing..

I haven't seen the actual image for 1871 as it was found by a chatte light years ago  and I never had the  reference Debs USA , so I will now take a look at the surname.


The name  as far as I know has always been spelt Phillips and pronounced that way and still is.

Patrish 

[patrish]

As to the 1861 looking for Emmanuel and Susan (Palmer)

I have the London CD set and have systematically gone completely through the entire disk for Whitechapel and Gt. Georges in the East and cant find them   

[deb usa]

 

off to the dentist ...bbs

deb 

[cathayb]

right a little bit more.if they were here before 1830 and came from spain or porugal they were not ashkenzim jews but sephardim jews!!!they could also hace come from portugal or netherlands or even a british colony like gibralter.later jews 1n the 1800s are ashkenzim and came from eastern europe,russia,poland,belarus etc.,you can try looking for naturalization records.if you dont know their jewish name it is almost impossible to trace them unless you have naturalization papers to look at.naturaliziation records available on line at www.nationalachives.gov.uk. the index only covers 1844 to 1934 though.you may also find them on the alien files in the home office records.as yours are early immigrants it will be difficult.look for a cencus where birth is given not in this country and start there!!good luck    on a more hopeful note later phillips which is quite an unusual name for a rom you can find some female phillips marrying turners around hampshire/dorset/sherwood.theres also some tomb stones there but not buried in the jewish part but they are not churchyards but cival buriel yards.  most jewish young men when they came to england packed a napsack and became pedlers at least for a time to find fame or fortune.many took enlish wives and may even have adopted the womens english surname and customs.jewish kosher and romany custom are very very simialar apart from me and roms who love a bacon sandwich!!!how good were your phillips about staying kosher?that might give you another clue.  cathay b.  end of book for now!!!

[patrish]

Looked at the 1871   and I see what you mean about Susan surname that is crossed out a real puzzler there, I wonder if because they were not legally married

I also notice that the surname has been spelt with one L  I have tried all variants of Phillips on the 41 .

They are living in Aldersgate, think this comes under East London, so perhaps I should trawl through that CD 


Patrish.