TREWARTHA Baptism Lookup please

[JPSmith]

Hi, Kris,
Yes I do have the original Marriage Cert. -
Married in the District of Daly
No. 56
25th December, 1873
William Trewartha, age 36 years, bachelor, Miner, Moonta Mines, William Benbow Henry Trewartha(father) , Yelta Wesleyan Church
Sarah Quintrell, age ?, Spinster, Moonta Mines, John Quintrell ( father).
Witnesses : Stephen Quintrell, surveyor, Moonta Mines and Bessy ? Reynolds, Moonta Mines and Richard Avigbue( not sure of spelling) , Miner, Yelta.
Samuel Knight, offificating Minister.
If he was 72years of age when he died, this would make him 27years old when he married not 36 yrs, which would fit in with his birth date of 1846.   Perhaps he gave the wrong age when they married.   He arrived in SA on 3/12/1865 on the ship "Lincoln", however, not sure if he was 16 or 19 years years of age.    If 16 years of age, then 1849 would be a closer birth date.
I have that right, don't I?
As you say the plot thickens and extremely interesting.
Regards, JPSmith.

[krisesjoint]

Hi JP,

Did he come with family? I have a horrible feeling  he didn't Those witnesses don't seem to help with William -  Is his age hard to read in the passenger list? Sorry for all the questions. Certainly a big difference in these ages from either 16 or 19 in 1865 - 36 in 1873.  I can't fathom why he would put his age up at marriage.  His wife was listed as MI (Minor) which fits with age at death to make her 20. Why would he say he was so much older if he wasn't. The plot certainly thickens, especially if he has given his own name as his father.  No Index mistake then. Its all very strange. Do you have much in the way of family stories about him and his origins? .......Kris 

[krisesjoint]

Just looking at the 1851 census JP, trying to get a feel for them and trying to work out just who is who. Mary Ann with the children I presume is Mary Benbow now widowed. Son William 2. If that is him he never knew his father. Perhaps its a reason for fathers name to be wrong, though you would think he would have been told about his father. Who is the 4 year William - the Lodger? Then in 1861 we have a 13 year old servant b Gwennap and a 16 year old William T or J on a ship listing as b Buddock. 1871 we have a 24 year old b Illogan married farm lab. I'm getting dizzy trying to sort them out. I hope you know which one is which...........Kris 

[kilmartin]

Hi JP,

You seem to have just as much trouble placing your Trewartha as we did.  I think it unlikely that your Mary Jane Trewartha was the one born 1825 in St Gluvias as she married Herbert Davies in 1849 and lived in South Wales - apparantly she lived to a 'grand old age' and I don't think there were connections to SA.

Thank you for your suggestions of children born to William Trewartha and Elizabeth Hitchens - we have identified that Martha and Susannah born in St Blazey were born to a different William and Elizabeth.   I have not investigated the Tywardreath James T, but suspect he is connected to the St Blazey family.

I have read your Trewartha Quintrell additions with interest.  I am surprised as to why your William would give such a long name for his father (William Benbow Henry Trewartha) if he did not think it correct surely if he wasn't sure he is more likely to have stuck with just plain William Trewartha (?).  I have spotted a message board entry on the Benbow Trewartha's on ancestry.com which seems to have a lot of detail about the Moonta Trewartha's and where they fit.  There is some useful information there which might help.  Certainly it would be helpful to know if he travelled with any family on the 'Lincoln'.

As you are looking for a possible birth around 1846 there should be a birth certificate which could be ordered as this is after civil registration.

Back to the photo I mentioned earlier on this thread - this seems confirmed as Joseph Martyn Trennery and not Joseph Martyn as there was not a record of a Joseph Martyn serving with the 7th Hussars but Joseph Trennery did.

Kilmartin

[JPSmith]

Hi, Kris and Kilmartin,
Thanks for your helpful hints.   Glad some of my info. might be heloful to Kilmartin.
I have spent time looking for passenger list for my William T. and do find him on the list for Lincoln arriving on  3rd December, 1865 - Plymouth to Port Adelaide.    List 65/12.
There are other Trewartha's listed - Ellen 65/14 and Joseph 54/14(2), but cannot see any others - don't know if they are relatives- haven't looked as yet.
Will come back to it later, JP

[krisesjoint]

Hi JP,

Very interesting.

I see in SA births to Joseph TREWARTHA and Ellen Jane POPE from 1867. They lived in the same area as William.

Joseph TREWARTHA = Ellen Jane POPE Sep 1863 Redruth 5c 416

There is even a possibility for him in Cornwall with a brother William John - parents are Joseph and Margaret unfortunately (but I was looking to put them together) I don't see this Josephs death or burial. Surely to arrive together they were connected. I think we need more info on him. A request for the death perhaps is the way to go, if you haven't looked for him. I don't see the deaths to 1916, and burials don't seem to be listed either. Somebody on The Oz board will be able to look for a later death.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,165.0.html

Once we have a little more idea of his age we may be able to work out who he was - perhaps his marriage cert may help Trewartha is not that common, I really can't see him travelling with a stranger who just happened to have the same name. Even if they were not brothers I feel it would be unlikely they do not connect. Also curious if there are entries in BISA for these boys......Kris

[kilmartin]

Hi JP
It looks like there was only one Ellen Jane Pope in Cornwall and she was born St Day c1840 and can be found in Gwennap in 1841, 1851 & 1861.  Her father Thomas was a Copper Miner.  It seems more than likely Joseph Trewartha was living in Gwennap then too (just a couple of years before their marriage).  It would be more of a surprise to find that Joseph Trewartha was not connected to your William Trewartha, so probably he came from Gwennap too - most Trewarthas have been found to have had connections with Gwennap at some point in the past.  The brothers born to Joseph and Margaret appear to fit the bill nicely (if only they the parents had the right names!!).  Perhaps it might help to see if we could trace these Joseph and William T's to see if they can be ruled out.

[krisesjoint]

Hi JP and kilmartin.

I don't see them in 1871 in Cornwall. I thought I may have had another idea on the possible connection, but I don't see that Joseph in 1861. I will take a look at that immigration when I am in town in a few weeks. I have to go to the library. Looking at William and Joseph's families, I note the only children's names they have in common are Mary, Mary Jane and William. I think Joseph's first son was Joseph Godfrey if that means anything. There is a Joseph Godfrey born the quarter after the marriage in Redruth. At marriage in SA age fits and father is listed as Joseph.......Kris 

[krisesjoint]

OK 

I am now leaning to the other thought I had as to who these boys were.  How about this, though I can't prove it. In 1841 we have a Joseph aged 3 with his parents John and Mary in Gwennap. JP initially mentioned thinking William may not have been truthful at marriage and his mother may have been Mary. We know he lied about his age and we find no sign of a likely father to fit the information on the marriage certificate. Now looking at this 3 year old Joseph, there is an older sister Mary. (she is aged 15 in 1841) In 1851 we have some of the siblings living together including Joseph. There are a couple of possible Mary's working and then we have this 4 year old William out alone - a lodger in the home of Mary Sprague. I am mentioning all this as I believe Joseph's first son was Joseph Godfrey as I mentioned above. In fact at one of Joseph's other sons marriages in SA he even lists his father as Joseph G. I find a submitted entry on the IGI that fits for Joseph listing his parents as John and Mary Godfrey. (1838) I went looking for a marriage and sure enough:-

John TREWARTHA = Mary GODFREY 9 Jun 1823 Gwennap.

Could be a matter of picking the right birth certificate JP, though there are a few at around the right time. Back to trying to find this Joseph in the 1861 census.

Cheers Kris