Are they gypsies?

[tiggi]

Hi paul
thank you for your comment, I know it was a long post lol but I feel so strong about it.
I like you knew nothing of my rich hertiage until I was grown my family kept it hidden as best as they could, which when I questioned it, was told mostly for reasons that Gypsies were thought of as bad people, even today that is still very much the problem, but now there is more mixed tribes and like I said the true ones are really gone, so many stories were wrote about them being bad, unclean, uneducated, true most couldn;t read or write , but they survived on their wits,
I would say much better than your average gaji.
My Family went to usa looking for a better life some stayed some returned believe me it wasn;t any better over there for them in early years.
I do have some wonderful stories I have found about many tribes going over  to USA I would say this anyone looking for an ancestor in Uk if you can;t find them look in USa Canada or even prison records as much as you may not want to think it they did often get arrested for lots of things .
 I also know that in the early years many gypsies were actually used like the Slaves to work on plantations, so another area to check, also many were sent to Austrilia via transportion gain another area to search.
The most enjoyable thing I find is if you are lucky enough to find any Photos or drawings of your family that is a magic find, as they didn;t really keep detailed family albums as we may today
Anyway thnk you for listening to me
sandy

[honey-roma88]

Hi paul
thank you for your comment, I know it was a long post lol but I feel so strong about it.
I like you knew nothing of my rich hertiage until I was grown my family kept it hidden as best as they could, which when I questioned it, was told mostly for reasons that Gypsies were thought of as bad people, even today that is still very much the problem, but now there is more mixed tribes and like I said the true ones are really gone, so many stories were wrote about them being bad, unclean, uneducated, true most couldn;t read or write , but they survived on their wits,
I would say much better than your average gaji.
My Family went to usa looking for a better life some stayed some returned believe me it wasn;t any better over there for them in early years.
I do have some wonderful stories I have found about many tribes going over  to USA I would say this anyone looking for an ancestor in Uk if you can;t find them look in USa Canada or even prison records as much as you may not want to think it they did often get arrested for lots of things .
 I also know that in the early years many gypsies were actually used like the Slaves to work on plantations, so another area to check, also many were sent to Austrilia via transportion gain another area to search.
The most enjoyable thing I find is if you are lucky enough to find any Photos or drawings of your family that is a magic find, as they didn;t really keep detailed family albums as we may today
Anyway thnk you for listening to me
sandy

I agree.

As for photos I was once contacted by someone who was related to me via my Munday Romani line and said his aunt had had photos of the family in their caravan on her wall when he was small but sadly he had no idea what had happened to them.  I would have loved to have seen those photos, I only have photos of my Romani family once they settled. Even once they had settled they carried on marrying within the blood as much as possible (although not always of course).
My family were the same about keeping the fact they were Romani quiet. In one of my half-breed g grandmothers she was always told that her mother's dark looks were the result of an affair with the Italian lodger. Both her parents were about half-Romani/traveller (her father was 1/2 Romani, 1/2 Jewish - my avatar - and her mother was 1/2 Romani, 1/2 English/Romani).
They kept a wheel in the garden but her father who was previously a rag & bone man was made by his wife (who was more Romani than him) to stop and become a labourer (I only found this out the other day) which she considered more respectable but as soon as she died he got his barrow out.
My family are proud of their roots now, I would hate for my ancestors to think I was ever ashamed of who they were.

[tiggi]

Hi
I know of many families including my own relations, that when eventually the old ones have died all their photos anything to do with them ever being  a Romani was destroyed. So sad and only excuse is because they married into gaji money.
I asked once, why to a family would they did this and was told, Its cos we don;t want people to know about us, they look down on us if they think we are gypsies,  we live in a house now like the gaji and if they knew they would treat us different , this was from a person who had married into a gypsy family, being a gaji they wanted to hide any knowledge of their ancestors roots, so sad , destroyed wonderful photos of wagons, true blood family imagines and all because they felt ashamed to admit their roots .
 This to me is such a waste, the photos especially cannot be replaced, they arent's just a imagine of people that were in your family but a historical memory of how they lived .
 I have  some wonderful collections of my own family now, it was the most magical moment to see members of my family long gone but wow the strong  looks were so easy to see in the generations today even my own children.
 I have told  my own children if they don't wish to know ( never happen lol) I have said to give it to a museum, let be found for someone who does want to know and that would be my advice to anyone don't destroy them give it away you don;t even have to say who you are, but please don;t destroy  those memories.

[honey-roma88]

tiggi - I'm just the same, I have scanned every photo I own of my family just in case anything happens to the original. Once my grandmother dies the ancestor's photos are all I wish to inherit.
I only have one photo I think when they are still travelling, it used to be my avatar. It was of my ggg grandmother just before her marriage when she was just 14/15. 
I hope my family never destroyed photos of themselves out of shame but of course I will never know.

[nashua]

Hi Tiggi & Honey-Roma. I see you both have Bucklands in your tree. I have an Elizabeth Emily Buckland born around 1877 who is a mystery to me and wondered if you had any knowledge of this family.
She married Philip Albert Jones in 1896 in Bristol, naming her father as John, a hawker. I have been unable to trace a birth registration for her. She is in the 1901 census in Bristol living with her 2 children, but no husband. Later that year both her and her husband were charged with neglect & the children put in a  workhouse
In 1901 there was a John age 68 & Fanny Buckland age 63 living next to Elizabeth, with adult children Henry, Joshua & Rose all saying born Bristol, I have traced this family back to 1871 and they had other children Percy, Joseph, Jenty, Minnie, Adolphus,Sarah, Cinderella, Circender, Emmily, Motte, Walter, William. The birth place of John is given most years as Oxford, Berkshire. Some years they were in caravans and some in houses but always in Bristol.

Their is no mention of Elizabeth Emily, the nearest in age would be Sarah, which has confused me.

I would really appreciate your advices if you have any knowledge of this family

Nashua

[cathayb]

have you tried lokking in dorset and hampshire.i have bucklands in bristol that travelled these two areas aswell.cathayb

[tiggi]

Hi Nashua
Like most families there are lots of Branches,I have taken note of what you have posted,  and will have alook for them My own Bucklands came from  Oxfordshire, but also at times mentioned Bristol, if you know Bristol Gloucester Road was well known for Gypsies, I know my familty did go to USA and settled there some did return to UK , but then settled in Devon cornwall area.
Some names do pop out at me like Jenty ( this was Gentilla orginally the church would not recgonise it as a name for obvious reasons so it got changed can be spelt Jenty Genty or even Jennie)
Adolphus was another, I have had somesome contact me about a Nelson Buckland who came from Bristol think family still there today, it maybe relations to  your family, i know that someone again has mentioned 2 brothers Adolphus & John ( sounds like your names) that went into Fair rides.  Motte was also used by Williams family as name .
Its also possible your family came from a Plato Buckland known to travel and marry into Williams & Fletchers some of children's names you mentioned sound like them,  he was from Buckinghamshire area lots of Bucklands related to him.
Point of interest :
The families didn;t always live in Caravans usually only when they traveled most were senisble and bought property
which would be their winter homes and also an investment
also did you know that families often used alias some used parents grandparents surnames.

Stangely I do have a Census when my own family are traveling with a family : I would guess that Mary Howard was married to a Jones for her daughter to use the name:

1881 Census Tavistock Cornwall Caravans Petericks Ground

Mary Howard born 1824 aged 57 Head Tavistock ( fruit seller & coster)

Jane Jones/Dann born 1846 aged 35 daughter Tavistock

Emily Dann born 1868 aged 13 grand-daughter Tavistock

William Thomas Dann born 1871 aged 10 grand-son Tavistock

Jane Jones/Dann husband is actually in 1st foot Reg Devonshire at this time


I will look for you see what I can find I would also suggest 2 things try doing a Scavenger hunt on here ask about it to Tephra its a really good way of finding info
alos go look at romanygenes site its has lots of info there about many families and again you could post a message might bring you some luck
happy hunting Nashua and what a lovely name
sandy

[nashua]

Hi Cathayb & Sandy

Thank you both for your messagesand suggestions. I haven't yet looked around Dorset or Hampshire. This family from Oxford, seem to have a link as they were living next door to my Elizabeth, so I have been concentrating on them.

Sandy - I will email you as requested.

Thanks again

Nashua

[tiggi]

Hi Nashua
Bristol came under the county of Gloucestershire before being known as in county of Somerset
I think area you need to look at is St Philip & St Jacob Bristol
 and don;t be put off if their trade is down other than traveler they did do manual work as well and I am sure your family contects to Williams family along the way which would ten bring you back to Plato Buckland who married into that family.

found a few families :all in this area above
1891 Census RG12 1986-67-p32 Bristol Gloucestershire
5 Pintagon Place
Adolphus Buckland b 1866 Bristol  B-In-Law labour
Rosinia Buckland    b 1882 Bristol sister -in -law
George Williams     b 1863 Filkins Oxfordshire  Labour
Jentinia Williams    b 1864 Bristol  ( would say sister of Adolphus
Joshua Williams    b 1889 Bristol

1891 Census  Alderman Stevens an alms house for the poor Bristol Gloucestershire RG12-1960-p3
C Buckland b 1817 Bristol Single almswoman
widowed ( could be called cinderella ?)

1891 Bristol Gloucestershire Trinity almshouse Rg12-1960-7-p8
Emma Buckland b 1827 Bristol Inmate Single aged 64
Anna Jones       b 1827 Alcester Warwickshire
hannah Jones   b 1845 Spaxton somerset
Henry jones      b 1849 Bristol ( husband)
Louise Jones    b 1882 Bristol

If this helps let me know or if you want me to look further I have John & Fanny too in same area as above so has to be a connection with them somewhere don;t you think ? sandy