burts of dunfermline

[davaar36]

Earl
Robert Burt, widower, 61 y/o upholsterer, whose death is in Canongate District in 1859 is given as the son of Andrew Burt, weaver, and Nancy Williams. Informant son Robert H. Burt. Cause of death is a bit novel - exhaustion after intemperance!
The other Robert Burt who died in St George district, Edinburgh 1859 was the 6 mo/o son of George Burt, nailer, and Margaret Marshall.
Andrew Burt, nailmaker, 72 y/o husband of Helen Leatham, died in St Giles District, Edinburgh in 1886. He was the son of James Burt, nailmaker, and Mary Mitchell. I think Helen was Andrew's 2nd wife. He was previously married to Mary Murray.

Dod

[davaar36]

Earl

Meant to say that informant at Andrew's death in 1886 was son Robert. Name and relationship of informant is often useful.

Dod.

[Earl]

Dear Duncan and Dod

Thanks very much for your responses and for confirming my understanding of the details of Robert Burt's death.  My Robert Burt is the St George (intemperate!) one. 

My problem remains finding a record of his birth that matches the details given on his death certificate (ie for Robert Burt, son of Andrew Burt, a weaver, and Nancy/Agnes William/Williams/Williamson, around 1801).  The confusion comes with the different information provided on the IGI, which could be completely wrong, another person altogether or a misreading/misrepresentation of details related to this Robert (case in point - Nancy and Agnes being interchangeable).  I think the key piece of information to confirm in any record of birth will be that it is a record for a Robert Burt, son of Andrew, a weaver.  Does this sound reasonable to you?  Important to note is that I can find NO record of such a person on ScotlandsPeople, which would suggest that I have run out of options.  Have you had any similar experience of this kind of a problem and how did you get around it?

Kind Regards

Earl

[davaar36]

Earl

You could start with the Scottish Census 1851 for Robert Burt of approximately correct age i.e. around 53 (I see there are only 2 hits). Although not 100% acurate if might give you a pointer to birth place and birth year. Surname may have been mis-spelled on transcription of OPR or forename not given. Children found on census might give clue to grandparents via naming pattern. You may have to get children from 1841 Census which is less detailed than 1851. Once you are happier with birthplace a detailed look at the appropriate OPRs might yield a result.

George

[davaar36]

The 1851 Census image for Robert Burt (52) upholsterer master employing 2(?) people, is very poor quality. Birthplace has been corrected. Looks like "Fifeshire, D?" (could be Dunfermline or, less likely as far as I can see, Dysart. Wife Marharet (50) born Haddington (East Lohian), Whittinghame as is older son David (27), journeyman tailor. Younger son Robert (14) born Midlothian Edinburgh. Location at Census is Maxtons Court, Pleasance, Edinburgh. Since marriage was in 1822 there could well have been other children who had moved on by 1851.
Neither of the 2 Robert Burts aged 40 in 1841 Census seem to be correct family. Looks like you are stuck with a laborious search through Fife births around 1799.

[Earl]

Dear Dod,

Yes, the 1851 Census for Robert Burt is a horror!  I agree that I need to look at births in Fife and, based upon the census information and that of Robert's death record on SP (son of Andrew, weaver, deceased and Nancy William(s)) I have been looking for births over a period covering both.  The only birth I have found is for 1801 to Andrew Burt and Agnes Williamson (IGI).  As ScotlandsPeople advises that Agnes and Nancy are interchangeable names I think this is a strong possibility.  However I can find no record of it on Scotlandspeople.  Should I therefore be concerned about the validity of the record?  I would welcome your advice.
Regards,
Carmen

[davaar36]

Carmen

The (about) 1801 birth is a Submitted Record and I think these should be treated with caution. Can you get details of this submission?
There is an Extracted Entry - Christening: 11 JAN 1795 Dunfermline Associate Session, Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland for a Robert Burt to Andrew Burt and Agnes W along with several others to Andrew Burt and Agnes THOMSON. Worth a closer look. The 1795 date is a bit earlier than suggested in the death and Census records. Maybe a pre-deceasd Robert. Cherck Fife Deaths?
Sorry I can't be more helpful. I'm not researching Burts so my knowledge is very limited.

Dod

[sancti]

Marriage on SP

30/06/1787 BURT ANDREW and AGNES WILLIAMSON at Torryburn /FIFE

Baptisms from OPR's on SP

11/03/1798 BURT JOHN son of ANDREW BURT/AGNES WILLIAMSON  at Dollar /CLACKMANNAN

19/10/1800 BURT WILLIAM son of ANDREW BURT/AGNES WILLIAMSON at Dollar /CLACKMANNAN


There is a large thread on the Burts here

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,288275.0.html

[DUNMAC]

Hi Carmen,
                   Scotlandspeople OPR Birth record for that parish might not go that far back, IGI  records have to be proven elsewhere as most are family remembered history that far back and not always correct.
                Found this don't know if it relates to your Burts:

                                    1851 Census: CSSCT1851_88:
                                     Dysart, St.Clairton, Fife:
Robert Burt, Head, 43years, Hand Loom Weaver, Dysart, Fife.
Margt. Cusin, (Margt. Kay), Wife, 40years, Stayning, Sussex.
Catherine Burt, Daur., 11years, Hand Loom Weaver, Dysart, Fife.
Margaret Burt, Daur., 10years, Scholar, Dysart, Fife.
Janet Burt, Daur., 7years, Scholar, Dysart, Fife.
Alexr. Burt, Son, 4years, Dysart, Fife.
Mary Burt, Daur., 1year, Dysart, Fife.
Catherine Kay, Mother-in-law, 59years, Bobbin Winder, Dysart, Fife.

Most of the other Dysart, Roberts were Miners or Masons/Quarriers, that I checked through.

                                                                            Regards,
                                                                                      Duncan.