Author Topic: Mystery photo in need of a better look!  (Read 40119 times)

Offline piestains

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Re: Mystery photo in need of a better look!
« Reply #36 on: Saturday 23 February 08 18:11 GMT (UK) »
I want to thank everyone for their input,  and thanks to Irene and Caz for their restoration.

I had a feeling this photo might receive a bit of attention!  I'd posted it on another site a few months ago and it received quite a few posts but nothing as much and as quick as here, so I apologise for not responding sooner.

I found this photograph behind an old family portrait taken around 1915.  My grandfather had the family photo for years, (and his father before him) but he didnt even know this one existed.

I've had a lot of help with the date and the uniforms and instruments.  The royal met society and RAF Hendon are interested in having a copy thats why I posted it here to see if i could get a better version.

Someone has kindly started to put together a web site for me where people can leave comments and suggestions etc.  Once thats up and running I've post it here.

I think its great to see such an attraction to it.  It's a real mystery.  No one in the photo looks familiar,  and as far as I know, no one in the family was in the RAF during the war either!  It would be nice if someone saw the photo and said that one of the men was their ancestor!

I'll post a bit of what info I have next....


Offline piestains

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Re: Mystery photo in need of a better look!
« Reply #37 on: Saturday 23 February 08 18:34 GMT (UK) »
The instrument on the floor in the centre could be a Nephoscope! 

Someone suggestion balloon slide rules for the two white rulers?

The chap in the middle definitely looks dark skinned!  I've been trying to work out his nationality for like ever!

The uniforms are alien to me unfortunitely - There's a lot of talk about the badges etc but I dont know-  I'm hopeless at remembering such things.  There's talk about canadian badges?

On the original photo the board on the floor looks more like a book - I can just about make out the binder part!!

But whats the most baffling is whether its sand or snow on the ground??!!  I personally think its sand but what about the fine powdery snow from very cold and dry places and if its sand then shouldnt the weather be warm and the civilian would be a little uncomfortable in a suit?

Thanks for all your thoughts on this guys






Offline piestains

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Re: Mystery photo in need of a better look!
« Reply #38 on: Saturday 23 February 08 18:37 GMT (UK) »

And that chap in the background, his face looks so familiar, and I'm sure it's not just because he's 'trying to look like Ronald Coleman.'


It's funny you should say that, because someone else said the exact same thing!

Offline scrimnet

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Re: Mystery photo in need of a better look!
« Reply #39 on: Saturday 23 February 08 18:46 GMT (UK) »
Hi Paula Roger et al,

Wartime boffins were so very inventive,  it might have been anything from a prop for a camp show, to a scientific instrument! 

I still want to know what the RAF museum would make of it, I am sure that they would be as interested as we are!

They might even be able to name the man in the middle!  There can't have been many black men in the RAF at that time, although there were a lot of Afro-Americans in the US forces stationed here later in the war.

Rabbit B  ;D

I really don't think the chap in question is black....And I still don't think this is wartime!!!!!  :o ;D ;D

If you look at the shadows you can see the light is coming from above, and he is wearing a "hat"...He may also be what was known at the time as "swarthy" in his complextion
One more charge and then be dumb,
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            Find my body near the wall.


Offline scrimnet

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Re: Mystery photo in need of a better look!
« Reply #40 on: Saturday 23 February 08 18:47 GMT (UK) »
Splendid photo!  ;D A real pleasure to see such an informal group.
Scrimnet has it right.
I have posted the link on the RAF Commands forum and I hope their members will be moved to comment.
Any other photos with this one?
Regards
Dave

Cheers mukker!!!!
One more charge and then be dumb,
            When the forts of Folly fall,
        May the victors when they come
            Find my body near the wall.

Offline Flakdodger

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Re: Mystery photo in need of a better look!
« Reply #41 on: Saturday 23 February 08 18:59 GMT (UK) »
Swarthy yes - but black??? No. A tall lad. I can just visualize his legs sticking out of an RE8 or an SE5.
Is there any possibility of a scan of the book by the chap sitting left. There seems to be an oval rubber stamp below the letters GR, this could be the unit, or office, stamp and would be the key to unravelling the jersey.
Cheers
Dave
The only free cheese is in a mousetrap

Offline piestains

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Re: Mystery photo in need of a better look!
« Reply #42 on: Saturday 23 February 08 19:34 GMT (UK) »
I agree Dave, he's dark maybe but not black.

I'm afraid I cant get a better scan than this, and at the moment I cant scan anything at all, which is so frustrating because I'm dying to see more of the book.  It is an oval stamp but what it reads is a mystery.

Can anyone help out here?  This is the most likely route to solving it.


And thanks for posting it on RAF commands Dave  ;D ...
 And no other photos with it

I like Rog's thought on it!   :D  They certainly achieved it

Offline percy porter

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Re: Mystery photo in need of a better look!
« Reply #43 on: Saturday 23 February 08 19:47 GMT (UK) »
I am not convinced that the pic is all that it initially appears to be. The mix of uniforms is one thing that leads me to that conclusion amongst others. The two individuals at left rear appear too be remarkably young, the one second left is wearing the rank of LAC or leading aircraftsman and the signalers emblem, as well as the RAF eagle on his shoulder flashes, they are not so evident on any of the other uniforms although officers uniforms did not have them.  They have brass buttons were as there colleague in the rear rank and the one sitting down in the front rank do not, the headphones are definitely WWII vintage and possibly earlier, the style and the woven cabling is a giveaway there.

The third guy on the rear rank looks very Eastern European to me and also seems to have an uncomfortable look on his face as if he doesn’t quite share the joke, the same goes for the civvy on the right.  His dress would indicate WWII era.

The guy front left is adopting the traditional “official “ service photo pose, IE hands on knees and legs slightly apart, he has a chevron on his left sleeve which I believe was a service award and was not used I believe in the RAF during or at least not after the war during my time (1955-67).

The next one second left with the mustache looks from his rank emblems to be a Warrant Officer however certainly from my time the badge was a lot different than that and it looks more like an army rank badge, it could be the Warrant Officer 2nd class badge which was discontinued in 1939 also the cap badge is wrong it should be a cloth badge in similar design to that of the officer second right.

The two officers are FLt Lt and Plt Off, both with  a variety of medal ribbons which I am not qualified to identify. The uniforms look right for the era with the correct shirts with cufflinks and the black tie of the time which later came to be Airforce Blue. They look to be the only ones with a uniform that actually fits, but as they are officers that was usually the case. The helmet it rather intriguing and the light bulb on the top is I believe actually a radio valve  I believe he is of coloured extraction rather than “swarthy” as a previous poster has suggested. His facial features indicate that. I am at a loss to explain the significance of the “Slide rules”

The final candidate far right front is again wearing a uniform different to the rest, similar in a way to those at rear left but as he has his arms across his waist it is not possible to identify if a belt is present but I suspect it is. He appears to have shoulder flashes as do all the others but certainly not as prominent as 2nd left, rear. He is wearing Cpls rank and a few medal ribbons, it is also noted that he is wearing white socks!

If what we see is genuine and it is in fact WWII I would plump for Iceland as the location.
Britton:Hawkins: London
Stephenson: Cox: London
Straughan: Sweeney: Newcastle/Durham
Liddell: Hobson:Newcastle/Durham
Horne:Oxfordshire/ Bienfait/Winnipeg
Voss: Dorset

Offline PaulaToo

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Re: Mystery photo in need of a better look!
« Reply #44 on: Saturday 23 February 08 19:54 GMT (UK) »
B'dy 'ell fire! That's a turn up!
Bartlett/Henley on Thames
Caponhurst/Buckinghamshire and?
Denchfield/North Marston/Bucks
Webb/Winchester
Mathias/Pembroke/Pembroke Dock
John/Pembroke/Pembroke Dock
Smith/Portsmouth/Portsea
Purchas/Bucks and?
Olliffe/Bucks