Parishes in London - Naming -COMPLETED

[sugarfizzle]

Help me!!

London, Middlesex or Surrey?!
All in 19th century, mostly before 1889

Southwark - Surrey (even though it's near the middle of London)
St Pancras - Middlesex (even though it's nearer to the middle of London)
Islington - ?
Wandsworth - ?
Regent Square - ?
St Giles - ?
St Martins - ?
Westminster - ?
Lambeth - ?
Covent Garden - ?
Bethnal Green - ?
Bloomsbury - ?
Camberwell - ?
Marylebone - ?

etc etc etc

Before anyone answers, look at the Rootschat heading for London!

Most of them in census give their place of birth as London, earlier censuses sometimes give Middlesex or Surrey.

I really don't know what to do, but I will definitely have to get rid of either London or Middlesex/Surrey, as yet undecided as to which one to drop!!

Margaret

[Mean_genie]

Don't lose any sleep over it!

Either option will be fine, Middlesex or London, Surrey or London - just so long as you don't mix up Middlesex and Surrey, which is always wrong . None of the places on your list would cause a problem. You'd have to be careful with places that occur on both sides of the river, but there aren't too many of those - St George is the main one (2 north, 1 south).

London is particularly troublesome, but you get the same sort or problem in other places too, and there is at least one parish that is not only split between two counties, but two countries!

Mean_genie

[Sylviaann]

Margaret

This site tells you which were in Middlesex http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~bpefisk/fh/Middx/index.html

Wandsworth, Lambeth and Camberwell were in Surrey.  It is handy to know whether it was south of the Thames or not

If you look at the London resources thread at the top of the London site you will find a map reference for parishes.  Found the above site under Middlesex resources.  I expect there will be one on the Surrey thread too.

Why don't you put i.e. Bethnal Green, Middlesex now London

Not worth worrying about.

Sylviaann

[behindthefrogs]

Don't forget Monmouthshire as it was that  switches between England and Wales every hundred years I think.

Berwick on Tweed which keeps moving backwards and forwards between England and Scotland and for which there is a current campaign to move it back to Scotland because the Scottish parliament provides free University education etc.

Returning to London, no one mentioned the bits of Hertfordshire and Essex which are now part of London

David

[Mean_genie]

Or Kent!

Mean_genie

[sugarfizzle]

''Either option will be fine, Middlesex or London, Surrey or London - just so long as you don't mix up Middlesex and Surrey, which is always wrong.''

I could easily mix up London and Surrey

''This site tells you which were in Middlesex http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~bpefisk/fh/Middx/index.html''

This looks like the way to go, I may 'blanket' change all my London addresses as per this page, there aren't many London addresses since turn of 20th century in my tree.
The odd error may creep in, but perhaps better than the way things are presented at present.

Thanks everyone for your advice and help.

Margaret

[Middx]

Hello

I am new to this site and this is my first post! Bizarrely I came straight to this chat thread by typing  "births middlesex 1780" into google!!! Having then registered myself I thought I would just say hi & thanks for leading me to this site.

I was born in Middx before 1965, and can sympathise with your confusion. All your areas are now in London administratively, but were not at the time of course. I thought the link to rootsweb was useful. I also find that on the census search on ancestry.co.uk site, clicking on the county at the bottom of the search page after having selected a census year, brings up a list of parishes, and that whilst London appears in censuses from 1871, it is not an option for censuses before that & have found my ancestors in both counties even though they hadn't moved!

Cheers
Middx

[sugarfizzle]

Greetings, Mddx,

You will find this a very friendly site,  lots of very helpful people.
Whether looking for something specific about your family, or more general such as this topic, someone will answer you if they have the information, or guide you to sources for that information yourself.

Long live Rootschatters (Have you all told someone else about the site today?!)

''I also find that on the census search, clicking on the county at the bottom of the search page after having selected a census year, brings up a list of parishes, and that whilst London appears in censuses from 1871, it is not an option for censuses before that & have found my ancestors in both counties even though they hadn't moved!''

Your point about census entries is good, but since the boundary changes didn't come in until 1889, I don't think that 1871 and 1881 census counties are correct on that site. 
The actual images usually make no mention of London or any other county on the page as a whole, or in the description of the enumeration district.

One 'London' borough at random - Chelsea
1871
Individual entries - Chelsea, Middlesex; Lambeth, Surrey; etc
1881
Individual entries - Chelsea, Middlesex; Lambeth, Surrey; also quite a few ''London, Middlesex''!!
1891 census - administrative council now clearly at top of page, London
Individual entries - London, Chelsea; London, Lambeth

However, if you look at entries before 1871, as you say, the demarcation is definitely there.  Chelsea is listed under Middlesex and Lambeth listed under Surrey.

Plenty of suggestions from all of you, all I need is a spare hour or two to go through everything!!

Margaret

[coombs]

I think London outside Sq Mile before 1889 was always London eg (Islington, Deptford, Soho) because as the LCC was created forming the County Of London, why would they have done that if London wasnt considered London outside the Square Mile. They must have seen it as London for them to create a new County Of London.

My great gran was born the same year the new County Of London was created. She was an Islingtonian ad her Sep 1889 birth cert says "County Of London".

Ben