another drylie dilema

[beansgram]

hi tom yes it was the 1871 census. and if you followed the above replies trish went on sp and found the marriage of adam drylie to margaret boyd listing his parents as catherine wilson and peter drylie and her parents as john boyd and elizabeth hunter.  and if you follow the naming patterns adams first born son is named peter and the second born daughter is named catherine but since the mother catherine wilson didnt die until 1899.  catherine died in the dunfermline poorhouse and the only adam drylie on the census is for birth at 1856 is the one listed with peter and jessie is this peter his father and jessie his stepmother or is this a different adam altogether. and if this peter is his father why isnt he with his mother she was still living at the time?  or is this actually the adam wilson born 6-8-1856 to catherine wilson and she married peter after adams birth was registered?   beans

[trish251]

It would be useful if you actually read what I found Tom; as beans is confused enough already without adding more confusion - and the information related to young Adam is somewhat confusing.

I should add, Church and civil  bdm and associated information provide what most folks call unarguable (if there is such a word)  information. Naming patterns and the like are secondary sources perhaps but I am perfectly happy about arguing against them as definite proof - when there is NO bdm information to back them up. I will also argue against church and civil records at times and can provide many examples of where it is incorrect. I could even resort to my father's comments, which eternally used to upset my mother as he stated "no-one can be 100% sure as to who is their father". I accept that this was said without the knowledge of current DNA - but this was not available in the 1800s - being the time you are making unarguable  statements which can well be argued. (And to make my position clear I have absolutely NO wish to argue/discuss anything with you - I simply point out for Beans' benefit that there are MANY possibilities in genealogical research)

Summarising what I found to date

it appears(not yet known as fact) that Adam Drylie was born to Catherine Wilson & registered as Adam Wilson. Why he went to live with his father and his father's wife is unknown, but in a similar fashion as to why things happen today, it may well relate to money & Catherine probably had no money & needed to support herself & had no way to do this while looking after her son.  Adam appears to have lived most of his life with the Drylie name. There may be some information from kirk sessions, there may be further information, such as an RCE on Scotlands people, but when Adam married he gave his mother as Catherine Wilson NOT Janet/Jessie Stewart, so he must have been told something about his birth if he is the same Adam living with Peter and Jessie.

The known FACTS
Adams marriage states he is 21 and his mother is Catherine Wilson
There is NO civil registration for Adam Drylie in the correct time period
There is a civil registration for an Adam Wilson at the correct time period - mother Catherine, father not listed on the IGI (extracted) record.
1871 Adam Drylie is listed living with Peter and Jessie
1861 Probably Adam Drylie living with Peter and Sarah (Sarah may well be a BAD ancestry transcription, this can be checked at SP)
No census record has yet been found for Adam Wilson in 1861/1871 - some possibilities for Catherine Wilson

~~~~~~~~----------------

Hi Beans

I do not think it likely that Catherine Wilson and Peter Drylie ever married. The dates for the birth of Adam and marriage of Peter and Jessie do not fit with that happening.

I would suggest you talk to the folks at your LDS centre and see if they have any kirk session information available on microfilm for the given time - I have a feeling this may have to be checked in Scotland (I don't know if it was ever filmed) but the LDS folks should be able to find anything that is available.

Trish

[tommacgregor]

Trish,

Nobody has requested you to enter into an argument with me on RootsChat, especially "Beans". I have simply taken the somewhat "sketchy" information that "Beans" has given me and tried to assist her as I have done in the past. I'm sure that she will acknowledge that the assistance given by me over a period of time has assisted her very well. The same goes for the information that I have given to many other people.

Perhaps if you were to spend a few days in a law court you may find out what is arguable and what is not. However, enough of this petty bickering. Tell me, would you consider that information gleaned from the Fife Wills Sheriffs Court, Fife Register of Inventories SC20-50-6 is REASONABLY ACCURATE or not? "Beans" had another problem that she appears to be struggling with, and that is the relationship between Archibald Cook and Jean Melville. Again, the "facts" as you refer to them, can be looked at in a number of ways, as you should know.

I took the trouble to find that an Archibald Cook married a Jean Melville on 19th August, 1808 at Kirkcaldy in Fife.  Now, the Fife Register of Inventories states that an Archibald Cook died on the the 13th January, 1832 at Kirkcaldy at the age of 88 and that he was the husband of Jean Melville.

A bit of simple arithmetic tells me that he would have been born around the year 1744 and so I searched for such a birth. I found that a John Cook married a Helen Thomson on the 8th January, 1726 at Wemyss in Fife, which is near to Kirkcaldy.

Children:

Catherine Cook born 5th January, 1727 at Wemyss, Fife
Ann Cook born 18th February, 1729 at Wemyss
Ann Cook born 20th May, 1731 at Wemyss
Ann Cook born May 1732 at Wemyss
Helen Cook born 4th November, 1734 at Wemyss
John Cook born 29th August, 1738 at Wemyss
James Cook born 5th February, 1741 at Wemyss
Archibald Cook born 25th May, 1744 at Wemyss.

Although that information looks FAIRLY REASONABLE on the surface, one could look at the great age difference between Archibald Cook and Jean. As I understand it, Archibald would have been 64 years at the time of his marriage to Jean and Jean only 33! . Archibald, as we're told, was 88 at the time of his death and Jean would have been 57! Of course it's all quite possible, but as I keep saying, it really needs to be closely examined before accepting it as fact - wouldn't you agree?

"Beans", I'm sure, is simply trying to unravel quite a number of problems, and I'm doing my level best to help her. I'm sure that you're quite capable of giving her the benefit of your experience, but I see no reason why you would wish to criticise me. Why not look at the above details and use them as a foundation upon which to resolve the problem for her? I'm sure that she would appreciate that more than reading your last posting.

Tom.

[trish251]

I do not agree with anything you say Tom and I will no longer be posting on the Fife board - how anybody called Cook has ANYTHING to do with this query is utterly beyond me

[tommacgregor]

Trish,

I thank you for your response, and if you had taken the trouble to READ what I have been saying on other postings, then you would know that "Beans" had asked me for assistance in addition to the one query that you are making so much fuss about. The Cook family is just as much a part of  "Beans" family Tree as it is mine. She asked for some information on the Cooks, and I have given it. If you are unable to add to that information, then it's not much of a problem.

Tom.

[sancti]

Adam Wilson was born on 8 June 1856, he is recorded as illegitimate, with mothers name Catherine Wilson (coal labourer)


Peter Drylie married Jessie Stewart on 15 Dec 1856. Peters parents were Adam Drylie (deceased) and Ann Hunter

[tommacgregor]

Hello again "Sancti"

It's nice to see that clear piece of information, and I'm sure that "Beans" will be extremely pleased to have it as well as other researchers on RootsChat. As a matter of interest, now that we know that he was illegitimate and who his mother was, do we have anything about his brothers and sisters?

That date you give is quite interesting, since I'm spending quite a lot of time helping "Beans" to fill in the gaps in her Family Tree. As you already know, parts of "Beans" Family Tree matches up with my own, and I have been able to give her the connections between the various Fife and Clackmannanshire families. That is probably something that others can't do, and it's really great that we can compare notes, so to speak!

If you managed to see the details about the Fife Sheriffs Court Index that I posted a short time ago, it may prove of some interest to you. I think the information on it is certainly worth taking a look at it, although some may disagree. "Beans" wanted some information, and I went out of my way to get it for her. At least we now have some information that Beans hadn't got before, and perhaps - just perhaps it may be possible to build on that.

All researchers on Rootschat appreciate, I know, your great help in matters like this.

Kind regards,

Tom.

[beansgram]

hi trish first off i am sorry to have caused and arguement between you and tom and i thank you for the imformation you foud it has helped me straighten out adams parentage. and i understand about how catherine might have not been in a position to care for her son my gr grandfather was killed on the railroad and my gr grandmother was pregnant at the time with their second child the first being my grandfather peter drylie silvis who ended up in an american orphange for awhile.  he was later brought home by his grandfather. anyway i would hate to see you leave the fife board over all of this you have been extremely helpful to me and i appreciate it very much

hi sancti  thank you also for your info it backsup what trish had found.  i feel that the adam with peter and jessie is the same adam born to catherine wilson. can't help wondering how jessie felt about taking in her husbands illegitimate son.  again thanks for your help

hi tom  you also have been extremely helpful to me on many occassions and i do appreciate the help in sorting out the inconsistancies in my tree.  i did not intend for this to cause a rift between more senior roots chat members and i think it will be a great loss of a valuable researcher if trish leaves this board as she has helped many other people not just me.

again i thank all of you for the help you have given me not just on this query but on all of the others as well     beans

[sancti]

1861 census

Office Row, Dunfermline

Peter Drylie 30 coalminer
Janet, wife 25
Adam son 4
Janet daur 3

All born Dunfermline