Name on marriage cert confusion

[Ann12]

Hi,

I have a marriage cert for a Robert Herbert in 1838, Lambeth London, his father is down as either Frederick or Francis, problem is, on every other document I have found the father is listed as Thomas, why a different name ?  Could there have been a reason why he would call himself something else on the marriage cert ?

Robert was the last child to be married it seems.  I can only find a marriage for one other sibling, however, when someone checked the St George, Hanover Square registers, the marriage wasn't registered, so I can't check for witnesses.

Any ideas ?

Thanks
Anna

[Mean_genie]

Have you looked at the church register entry for Robert's marriage, or only a certificate issued by the GRO? (I'm assuming it was a church marriage, since Register Office ones were very rare in theose early days).  The clergy sometimes made mistakes in the copies they sent to the GRO. If the two entries agree, are you sure that you have the right man in the first place?

You mentioned the marriage of another sibling, but I'm a little confused. How did you find it if you think it wasn't registered? Maybe we can help with that if you give us some more information. 

Mean_genie

[Ann12]

Hi,

I haven't checked the actual registers for Robert's marriage.  I know from documents I have that he married a Margaret Smith Marshal and that his occupation was a newspaper editor, same as on the marriage cert.

His sibling was called William Hyatt Herbert, he is confirmed as Robert's brother.  I found a marriage entry for William (the only one with the exact name) in the IGI.  I know that the entire family moved to London from Seaford in the early 1820/30s, so I can only presume that they are one and the same I hope !!

Thanks
Anna

[Mean_genie]

I looked at the IGI entry for William Hyatt Herbert's marriage, and although it gives an exact date and place, it was submitted by an individual researcher, and not extracted from a register, so it is hard to check because you don't know what the source was that the submitter consulted.

From the infromation you have, it seems you have the right man, so I'd definitely suggest checking the church register for Robert's marriage, just in case the GRO copy contains a mistake. Does the father's occupation match with what you already know, or isn't it given?

And one final thought, have you looked for any wills that members of the family might have left? Where they exist, they can be awfully good for establishing or proving relationships.

Mean_genie

[Valda]

ROBERT HERBERT
Christening:  09 JUN 1816   Seaford, Sussex
Father:  THOMAS HERBERT 
Mother:  GRACE 

GEORGE HERBERT
Christening:  27 AUG 1809   Seaford, Sussex
Father:  THOMAS HERBERT 
Mother:  GRACE 

1851 census HO107 1646 folio 375
1 Golden Lane at 14 Western Street Brighton
George Herbort 41 Head Married Bricklayer Seaford Sussex
Sarah Herbort 39 Wife Married Charwoman Westergate Sussex
Grace Herbort 13 Daughter Chelsea Middlesex
George Herbort 10 Son  Paddington Middlesex
Charles Herbort 8 Son Brighton Sussex
Henrietta Herbort 3 Daughter Brighton Sussex

GEORGE HERBERT
SARAH CAIGER 
Marriage:  20 AUG 1833   Saint Nicholas, Brighton, Sussex

Births Dec 1842   
HERBERT  Charles Caiger     Brighton  7 239

1841 census St Mary Marylebone with two oldest known children.
1871 census George senior was in Brighton workhouse.

Deaths Sep 1872   
HERBERT  George  63  Brighton  2b 133


Regards

Valda

[Gadget]

IGI - controlled extraction

Thomas Herbert m. Grace Medhurst
1st May 1800, Seaford


Gadget 

[ndedross]

Bar a clercal error, the certificate shows the information given by the participant - there would be no questioning unless the recorder was suspicious. I have a couple of cases where the father's christian name is incorrect. In one case the father had died when the groom was under 2 years of age, so probably he never his father's name and when asked gave his own name to avoid embarassment. In other cases, a brother's name was given - maybe the marriage was not approved of by his family?  I dare say it was stressful to have a stern cleric fire questions at you - and you may blurt out the wrong answer, which you wouldn't want to then correct.

Nigel

[Mean_genie]

Good point Nigel. Now that I think of it, on the day that we wed, the Person To whom I Was Once Married was so paralysed with nerves that he had to ask me how old he was when the Registrar asked his age! And a friend of mine gave her father's name but her stepfather's occupation. I guess no-one is quite at their mental best on their wedding day.

Mean_genie

[Valda]

Having said that Robert Herbert was a newspaper editor so you would expect that he would be less likely to suffer from nerves or be overwhelmed when 'confronted' by officialdom. He would also be literate so he would see any mistake made on the certificate as he signed. You might have thought if he did see any mistake he would request that the error was corrected.
The GRO certificate is not an original but a copy if the original marriage was held in a church. The original marriage certificate would be in the church register. The GRO's 'certificate' is merely a copy sent to them by the local registrar.

It would be interesting to know what occupation Robert's father was given on Robert's marriage certificate and whether that correspondended with the occupation given on Robert's baptism in 1816 for his father. The difference between George Herbert of Brighton's occupation - a bricklayer and Robert Herbert's, a newspaper editor, seems a little unusual for brothers.

Regards

Valda