FRANCE: French connection

[RoDe]

 
Apologies if this subject has already been covered but being a novice to Rootschat still finding my way round.  Have trawled the site a wee bit but can't find any other posts that would appear to help.

One of my ancestors, a Mary J. Hughes was born in France in 1821 but then moved to the Bilston area which was then in Staffordshire, now in county of West Midlands.  Where should I start in France to get birth details?

Any help gratefully appreciated.
RoDe

[Berlin-Bob]

Hi RoDe,

Try this topic on the Immigrants board for some general information:
Topic: French Relatives - Where do I start?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,173401.0.html

another source of general information is the new Familysearch resource:
Topic: New resource from Familysearch
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,259450.0.html

Good luck,
Bob

[jorose]

From your other messages, this is the family, right?:

Sarah Hughes (b. 1851) (married John Henry Harris)
mother Mary J, b. abt 1821 France.

So she wasn't nee Hughes.

1871 census, Bilston:
RG10/2950 72/10
Thomas Hughes, 47, coal miner, b. North Wales
Mary, 45, wife, b. France
Sarah, 20, dau, b. Bilston
John, 18, son, ironworker b. Bilston
Emanuel, 16, son, ironworker b. Bilston
Thomas, 14, son, ironworker b. Greatbridge
William, 9, son, ironworker, b. Darlston

1861, Bilston Road, Darleston
RG9/2009 46/41
Thomas Hughes, 36, coal miner, b. St Martin Shropshire
Mary, wife, 34, b. France
Sarah, dau, 11, b. Bilston
Emanuel, son, 6, b. Bilston
Thomas, son, 4, b. Tipton

[RoDe]

Hi jorose

Re your post number 2.

The first part accords with that of the 1891 census RG12 62/29 which shows at 8 back 65 Bilston Street – John Henry Harris (my great grandfather) Iron works labourer aged 39/Sarah wife aged 40 and 4 children aged from 18 to 4.

Also in the same house – Thomas Hughes Iron worker aged 33/Susanna wife aged 29 and 2 children aged from 2 to 5mths.

At 10 back 65 Bilston Street were – Mary J Hughes born 1821 France/John Hughes Ironworker son aged 38/Mary Harris Tin worker god daughter aged 18/Thomas Harris god son aged 10 and 2 visitors.

So presumably Thomas & John in the 1891 census were sons of Mary J. The ages are right for a woman of 70. Although the 1861 census shows Mary living at Darlaston she may well have moved to Bilston somewhere between 1861 and 1891, particularly as in 1891 there was no male of a similar age in the household so somewhere along the line her husband Thomas must have died.

The only thing that doesn’t accord is the birth year shown in the 1861/1871 censuses which would indicate born 1826/1827 but which I think should be 1821. However, how accurate were the ages quoted in those days?, bearing in mind many people weren’t particularly well educated. Could they be out by as much as 5/6 years?

Sad to see a child (William) as an ironworker at the age of 9.

Many thanks for the information. It adds a bit more to the jigsaw.

Rgds

[jorose]

Darlaston and Bilston are so close together that they could have only moved a short way to get from one to the other. (Note the address in 1861!).

I've seen ages out by a good ten years, especially when the person in question is older and the person giving the information might have been a relative unsure of the details (My mother in law? Well, she's about 70, I think...)

Now familysearch is back up, I can see the family in 1881 as well - she's listed as 55, France (British Subject), and a granddaughter, Mary Harris, is with the family.  So I'd guess around 1826 is the correct birth age, and the 1891 census is the odd one out.

She might well have not been French but born to an English family who were temporarily in France for some reason, so it's important to track down her maiden name and marriage record so you can see what her father's occupation was.

[RoDe]

That's three census returns that pinpoint Mary Hughes' birth year as 1825/1826 so it may be that the age quoted in the 1891 census is incorrect. I haven't yet seen the actual 1891 census record; the information was given to me by another rootschat member also researching Bilston ancestors and perhaps the census was misread or difficult to read for some reason. Anyway, no matter, it all seems to fit.

[RoDe]

Further query to all you French experts out there. Have now found Mary Hughes in the 1891 census and under 'WHERE BORN' it states 'France(British Subject)'

Where therefore is the birth likely to be recorded - France or England?

Any guidance gratefully appreciated.

[jorose]

This may be intended to make it clear that her father was English, although if she was French she would also technically have become a British subject upon marrying.

If her family were English, her birth could be recorded in several places:
She could conceivably have been registered with the local French authorities (civil registration, not christening), although I'm not sure how common this one was.
If the family were in a place like Paris, where there was an Anglican chapel (the British Embassy chapel), she could have been christened there.
They could have waited until they returned to England and then had the children born overseas all christened together.
She's born too early to be registered in the overseas (consular) registrations - they didn't start recording until 1847.
If her family were military she might be in the overseas military records, but I think she's in the wrong time period for there to be much of a British presence in France.
She might just have been missed - it happened.


I would recommend that you find or get someone to find for you the family in 1851, locate the birth record of daughter Sarah and then the marriage of Thomas Hughes and Mary (nee ). You may be able to, from the info on the marriage certificate, find her with her family in 1841 or other members of the family in the Bilston area in 1851 onwards. The father's occupation might clue you into why they were in France or one of her siblings might list the exact town they were born in in censuses.

[silvery]

census 1851
HO107/202/96/22

Thomas 29 Wales coal miner
Mary 24 France (British subject)
Sarah 6 months

at Hallfields, Bilston