Help with JOHN ELLIS please

[Foz]

JOHN ELLIS   b.c.1796  Caxton ?   
Can anyone help me with his details please,  birthdate and place, marriage date and place, parents names ?
He was married to Elizabeth, can you help with her details also please, they had one known son, Edward b.c.1825,  any other children ?
I know they had a granddaughter Ellen Flinders b.c.1839.

Thank you very much.
Foz   

[bedfordshire boy]

If you start from what you know and work backwards you're in less danger of researching someone else's tree. How do you know Ellen Finders was the granddaughter of the Ellis couple? What else do you have on their "known" son Edward? Too much information is better than adopting the minimalist approach. (much, much later - just seen the 1881 which is obviously where you got your information from. It would have helped if you'd said they were in Gt Gransden Hunts in 1881!)

There's only one Ellen Flinders birth on FreeBMD c 1840 - June quarter 1841 in Caxton registration district. In 1841 there's only one Ellen Flinders in Cambs - age 5 months living in Eltisley with William and Sobias Flinders. FreeBMD has a marriage of William Flinders and Sobias Wakefield in 1839, so this Ellen doesn't seem to be an Ellis granddaughter. What else do you know about Ellen? (Sebias Wakefield was baptised in Croxton in 1820 so she wasn't a widow on marriage to William)

However there's also an Ellen Flinders aged 3 living in Gt Gransden Hunts with Thomas 24 and Caroline 20 Flinders, and presumably her siblings Mary 5 and John 17m?- I'll do some more research in Hunts and see what I can find ***

Have you looked at the Cambs FHS website at http://www.cfhs.org.uk/Search.html ?

It contains baptism and burial indexes 1801-37, plus census indexes for the 1841-51-61 censuses, which would help you research these names. How sure are you about Edward's and John's birthdates?

David

*** Later. Panic over! Hunts Marriage Index has a marriage in 1836 between Thomas Flinders and Caroline Ellis at Gt Gransden. In 1851 Caroline was 30 and gave her birthplace as Kingston Cambs

[bedfordshire boy]

Kingston, Cambs is a mile from Gt Eversden, Cambs, and 5 miles from Gt Gransden, Hunts. If you check the IGI you'll see a Caroline Ellis birth and baptism recorded at the Independent Meeting House, Gt Eversden in 1820. Also at the same church was recorded the birth and baptism of Edward Ellis in 1824, plus five other children. **

The problem is that the parents in each case were John and Sarah Ellis, not Elizabeth. Their first child baptised  was in 1816, implying a marriage 1815/6.

How sure are you about Elizabeth being the wife of John? (Edit - she was, but his second wife and not the mother of his children)

In any event you need to check Gt Gransden parish register for the marriage of Caroline, to see if a parish of residence other than Gt Gransden is given, and also to see if the witnesses provide a clue.

In 1841
HO107/ 453/8 folio 11A
South St, Gt Gransden, Hunts
John Ellis 45 farmer
Sarah Ellis 45
Edward Ellis 17 ag lab
Hannah Ellis 13
All except John born in Hunts

What makes you think John was from Caxton? (Edit - just seen the 1881 census)



David



** The baptism index on the Cambs FHS site that I mentioned in my previous post has the added detail for five of the baptisms that the abode of John and Sarah was Gt Gransden. It's beginning to look as though your information about  Elizabeth as the wife of John is wrong.

John Ellis married Sarah Rich in Gt Gransden in 1814 (Hunts Marriage Index)

Just found John & Sarah in Gt Gransden in 1851. Forgot that Ellis might have been enumerated as Elliss

HO107/1758 folio 99A
Gt Gransden, Hunts
John Elliss head marr 55 farmer 10 acres employing 2 men born Cambridge
Sarah Elliss wife 58 b Kingston, Cambs
Hannah Elliss dau unmarr 23 b Hunts Gransden
Mary Ann Flinders grand dau 14 scholar b Gransden Hunts
Alice Barley visitor unm 26 milliner b Yaxley Hunts
William Peck visitor unm 22 tailor b Wrestlingworth Beds
Stephen ?insby servant 12 Farm lab b Lt Gransden, Cambs
James Williamson visitor 18 unm Farm lab b Kingston Cambs

The presence of Mary Flinders, grand daughter, who must have been the Mary aged 5 with William and Caroline in 1841, I think closes the loop

[bedfordshire boy]

Getting bored with adding amendments, and the second message is getting a bit long, so I'll start a new message!

Just found John in 1861 with what must be a second wife, Elizabeth

RG9/1017 folio 131B
Cottage, Gt Gransden]
John Ellis head marr 65 ag lab b Cambridge Cambridgeshire
Elizabeth Ellis wife 56 b Lt Gransden Cambs
Frederick Beard son in law 16 b Lt Gransden
(son in law also meant stepson)

1871
RG10/1575 folio 14B
Gt Gransden
John Ellis head marr 75 farmer 2 acres b Cambridge (borough)
Elizabeth Ellis wife 66 b Lt Gransden Cambs


With John giving his birthplace as Cambridge in three consecutive censuses it shoots down my original thought that he might have been the John Ellis baptised 22 March 1795, son of William and Elizabeth at Bourn, Cambs, which is only a couple of miles across the fields from Gt Gransden, Hunts. (Edit - the 1881 birthplace of Caxton puts a bit of a spanner in the works! Caxton and Bourn are within spitting distance of each other, but why would he have given a very specific Cambridge (borough) in 1871?

FreeBMD has a death of a Sarah Ellis in Caxton registration district in Dec 1852, and a marriage in Bethnal Green in Dec 1860 where two of the four parties on the page are John Ellis and Elizabeth Beard


David

[Foz]

Hello David,
A very distant relative of mine has been in contact with me through GenesReunited.
We are both trying to research the Ellis family.
Her line goes back to Margaret Ellis b.1885 Derby, who married Daniel Harbord 1905 Edmonton, London.
My line goes back to Margarets brother George Ellis b.1875 Derby, who married Alice Wyatt 1898 West Ham, London.
We've both found that Margaret & Georges parents were Edward Ellis b.1853 Gransden and Charlotte Chandler b.1846 Derby.
This Edwards parents were Edward Ellis b.1825 Great Gransden and Ann Barley b.1824 Yaxley.
My "rellie" has found that this Edwards father was John Ellis b. 1796 Caxton, and this is where we are stuck and hoping for some help !   
We've only found the 1881 census with John and wife Elizabeth and granddaughter Ellen Flinders.
I don't think we're really interested in the Flinders branch of the tree, but want to know the Ellis line, and who was Edwards (1825) mother - Elizabeth or someone else ??   
 
Thanks very much for all your help so far.
Regards
Foz     

[bedfordshire boy]

Edward's mother was Sarah. Elizabeth was John's second late in life marriage.

As I said about John, the only reference to Caxton being his birthplace was in 1881 when he was 85. The three prior censuses all gave Cambridge.

Wade through what I found, and compare it with what your rellie has, and then if you have any queries let me know

Regards

David

[Foz]

Thank you,  David   

[Caseyfnz]

A Caroline Ellis married Thomas Flinders 15/Apr/1836 at Great Gransden, so I expect her father was the John Ellis mentioned.

Caroline and Thomas both died as a result of TB on 2/Jan/1856.

In total they had 8 children including the Ellen you mention.

Keith Flinders, Wellington, NZ

[Foz]

Hi Keith,

Yes, it looks as if Caroline's father was John Ellis. 

Thanks very much for this bit of info you supplied, it all helps.   

Regards

Foz