Is this the uniform of able seaman royal navy man 1920-1936. official photograph

[chinakay]

We aim to confuse

C

[scrimnet]

Just come over from the Armed Forces board  ...

Now for the first pic...

I would say that the pic dates from around 1910ish (the collar and cut of the jacket).

I would also punt that he is from one of the steamship companies, such as P&O or Ellerman Lines (Merchant Navy Class - Southern Railway's named a series of engines after a slack handful.. ) or something of that ilk.

I've tried to look at some but haven't found it ...yet!

The Merchant navy had just a badge with MR surmounted by a crown within a rope type thing...

Perhaps he's a steward or something....

The second pic...They are NOT No4 rifles they are No1 MkIII. SMLE 

L1A1 are SLRs 7.62mm not Lee Enfields....

I would punt that there is NO chance that his pic is post WW2....

They are wearing 1908 ptn webbing in the first style as they have not been altered for trench warfare. The next style came in in 1937. The Navy did have some weirder bits to their webbing, but this pic is deffo PRE WW2...

Only during wartime did the cap tallys say "HMS" rather than a ships name. that notwithstanding...I have seen some WW1 pics with named tallys on...and with white topped caps...summer wear

It was not unknown for someone in civvy shipping to transfer to the Royal Navy...given my presumed date of the first, he may have transferred during WW1, and then stayed in...

Have you searched for a medal card yet, or perhaps his Naval records???

Another thing...several of the cap tally bows are towards the front...This is done in times of celebration...

[chinakay]

OH just got home from work and tells me they are MkIII's, even before he'd seen Scrimnet's post So we have a consensus on the rifle, which came out in 1907. He also says the talleyband only had the ship's name on it during peacetime.

And BTW I never said the L1A1 is a Lee Enfield.

C

[scrimnet]

PS...
No4 Lee Enfields came out in 1942...and had a sticky out bit of the barrel...



This is a No4...

[scrimnet]

OH just got home from work and tells me they are MkIII's, even before he'd seen Scrimnet's post So we have a consensus on the rifle, which came out in 1907. He also says the talleyband only had the ship's name on it during peacetime.

And BTW I never said the L1A1 is a Lee Enfield.

C

Oh dear...I'm looking like mr misery guts here  ....I'm going to have to disagree again....

http://www.geocities.com/greatwarnavy/Image8.jpg

WW1 sailors in white topped caps! 15th June...1916

[scrimnet]

BTW I think I posted the pic of the No4 at the same time as chinas last post!!!

[scrimnet]

BTW pt 2...

I didn't say  ...I think the second pic is  mid to late 20s / early 30s

[medhist]

scrimnet you''re amazing.  So I'm back to pre 1937 with webbing, which is corect for him as he died in 1936.  He was stationed in Hong kong for several years and also went to Australia at some point, so would the white caps fit with that?
The first pic being c1910 means it is too early for him.  He was born 1909. He joined Navy in early 1920s-not sure when. I have no experience of getting navy records.  I looked it up in national archives and where it would be depends on what precise year he entered which I don't know.  I don't really know where to start there. Are there people who specialise in looking up that kind of thing like they do for the Army?
Welcome any suggestions.
Thanks for trying to solve my puzzle everyone

[scrimnet]

I've asked an "associate" of mine who specialises in pre WW2 Royal Navy to look at the pics..he may come up with some more int for you...

As for the white top bit...White tops and white flannel fronts were worn in summer, blue tops and blue jerseys in winter, in home waters. However, supposedly, the wearing of white top caps was suspended in home waters for the duration, but with the above pic we know different!

White caps were worn all year in warmer climes: in the med, white tops with blue uniforms in the winter, white tops with white uniforms in the summer, in the tropics it was white tops woth white uniforms all year round. I have a feeling (although this could be WW2 only) that blue caps only were worn at night...