Kays of Hothersall, Ribchester, and area - photos to share

[Duck]

Has anyone come across an Ellis Kay b c1790 who married a Mary Wilkinson from Ribchester, One of Ellis's children William was baptised at Alston Lane RC, Alston, Nr Longridge in 1819

 - actual address in Mersey Street.

I'll ask my sister, she moved into Mersey Street, Longridge at weekend 

[ChapelGirl]

I didn't realise there were people on Ancestry researching this family, I've felt rather alone with this for many years!

I have only just discovered the Kays in my line in the last few days.  I was born and raised just south of Preston but am now living in the land of Vercingetorix.     My dad's line all came from the Fylde area and my mum's were mostly from Wensleydale and adjoining Dales but I did not start researching the family until quite recently. This means that 95% of the information in my tree has come from census or parish information which has been published on-line, or courtesy of other researchers because I cannot physically get to the records offices, churchyards etc.

Louise, are you a member of any other genealogy sites such as Ancestry or Genes Reunited? 

[Louise Mumford]

Has anyone come across an Ellis Kay b c1790 who married a Mary Wilkinson from Ribchester, One of Ellis's children William was baptised at Alston Lane RC, Alston, Nr Longridge in 1819

Yes and no.  There is more than one Ellis/Elias Kay on the area, in fact there's three that I know of, all born within four years of each other,and two of them marry Marys. This is a bit complicated, so you'll have to bear with me - I've got quite a bit further with the pesky Kays than my first posting on this thread, but it isn’t simple…

The problem we both have is that the names Ellis and Elias seem to be a bit interchangeable in parish registers, wills etc, which I suppose is not surprising when so many people were illiterate, and the spelling of names was a bit fluid anyway. And there's the usual thing of families having several sons close together, who then marry and themselves all have sons close together, using the same pool of forenames.

Also, if you have been relying on looking for William on the IGI, there's not many non-conformist records from the area on the IGI, nor on the Non-Conformist BMDs on BMD Registers/The Genealogist - they're not very well represented at the Lancashire Record Office either, they tell me, and may not have survived in the churches so there will be some mysteries which may never be solved. I do have the Ribchester St Wilfred's registers on microfiche and have extracted all the Kay records, which sometimes have more information than the IGI set, and made them into family trees as best I can, although with the rise of non-conformism, by the late 18th/early19th century unsurprisingly there aren’t enough births to go with all the marriages and it isn’t so good. The wills I mentioned above do help.

There seem to be three Ellis/Elias Kays born in the area around the same time;
Ellis Kay, son of John & Ann Kay of Hothersall, baptised St Wilfrid's Ribchester, 27.9. 1789
Ellis Kay, son of Ellis & Mary Kay of Whitton, baptised as above 20.5.1792, inconveniently close.
I believe (but can’t prove) these are both the grandsons of William Kay, one the son of John, baptised 16.4.1749, the other the son of Ellis, baptised as above 2.8.1752.

Then, if you look at St Mary's Alston via the IGI, there's 'Elliz.' Kay, MALE child of William Kay and Agnes Hurst, baptised 17.5.1791. This might be the same Ellis who has a daughter Joanna with Mary Riding, bap. at St Mary’s feb 1815, then apparently marries her (the official marriage in an Anglican church might have been at St John's Preston 3.4.1815) and goes on to have a daughter Alice, baptised 2.1.1818 as well as the William you mention.

I've tried following all three Ellises through the censuses and to their deaths, but haven't had much success.

Continued in next post, was too long....

[Louise Mumford]

All I am 100% sure of is that my Elias Kay is the one on the 1841 census for Ribchester, at Church Bank and that he has a son Thomas, because of BMD certificates I have.

He is there on the census with children Ann, 25, who could be the Ann bap. at St Wilfred's  30.6.1811 William (20), Elizabeth, (15), Margaret (9) and Elias (5).

This Elias also had children Thomas (1821), James (1823), Elizabeth (1825) and John (1828) baptised at Mellor Methodist when he was living at Ramsgreave, then Margaret and Elias baptised at St Wilfred's in 1831 and 1836 when he was living at Church Bank

This leaves a gap between Ann (1811) and Jane (1813) both bap. St Wilfred’s and Thomas (1821) bap. Mellor, which could be filled by the three births at Alston if Elias was a total religious flea, and if Mary the first had died (can't find a death, but that means nothing) and been replaced by Mary Riding.

However, years ago at the Lancashire Record Office, searching for children to fill the gap, I found some more baptisms for children of an Elias and Mary Kay, then living in Clayton-le-Dale (all these places are around the area):  John (4.7.15), Alice (27.5.17) and William (6.6.19). Then (and I'm blushing as I type this) I committed the classic howler of not writing down the source at the time, and now I can't find it again, despite looking at the records of many churches and chapels around the area on subsequent visits.       It must be there somewhere, I couldn’t have made up so much detail, I just haven't found it - I have an idea it was non-conformist, and I’ve checked all the Anglican churches and most of the chapels. D’oh.

There is an Alice Kay, 33, on the 1851 census with her father aged 59 and brother Elias ; on the 1861 census after her father died, with her sister Margaret who married a Mercer, aged 43, but as the 1851 census was taken on March 30th and the 1861 on April 7th, it could be either Alice. She's also with her brother John on the 1871 census, aged 53, which inclines me to think she isn’t the Catholic one (unless she also had a brother John baptised somewhere else).

I was going to say I hope that helps, but I expect by now you’re either asleep or have had to go and lie down in a darkened room! Tbh, I can’t prove most of the above, but if I bought lots of expensive marriage certificates for all these children, it might help.

If you know your William was a Catholic,  that would help you. Otherwise, his birth is in the Lancashire record office somewhere....(blushes again)

[Louise Mumford]

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[Duck]

Louise

Many thanks for all the information.  I have stored it for later reference, as I, being a man, is only able to do one branch of my family at a time

Thank you once again

Simon

[Louise Mumford]

You're welcome.
Thanks for not saying that I'm obviously tragically obsessed with these wretched people, and need to go out more!

If I find out more, I'll add it to the thread - there must surely be more of us out there linked to this pesky family!

[Duck]

 this pesky family!

It's something to do with them coming from Longridge and Ribchester, I lived there for many years and couldn't work 'em out