1861 -TATTUMs from BAGILLT, HOLYWELL

[Ninian]

Hello again and thank you again Paul

Bear with me - much checking to be done to see how they fit in.  As Capt Oates said "I might be gone some time"! 

Off the top of my head though Albert Ashford T looks just right - I have him as the eldest child of Francis T (from the 1901 census) - but that was all I had on him.  His younger sisters (too young for the census but I know of them anyway) are:

Dorcas Mary Garland    1902
Gertrude Rebecca        1903
May                              1905
Ivy                                1909

So yes you were right with the Mary Garland.  All 4 daughters are buried in New Brighton Cemy in Bagillt - but none of the sons of Francis, so I've found one of them now (well you found him). 

The brothers of Albert Ashford were:

Albert Ashford                       1896
John Henry                            1897
Francis Ewart Gladstone       1898  (Francis senior must have been a fan of the Prime Minister of the time!)
Daniel Ernest P                     1900
 So one of them was probably the unreadable Tattum witness.

P.S.  Poor Mary Tattum - as you say 'always the bridesmaid'  I have her on the 1991 census - still single (I shall look to see if her luck changed by 1901!!) - her full name was Mary Ashford Tattum - so Ashford must be a family name as Albert has it too.

Twins run in families - that must strengthen the likelyhood of a connection with Caroline T from Mold and her twins (but I'm d***** if I can find it! - I haven't given up though).

Progress report will follow......

Ninian

[Ninian]

Hello Paul

They were all mine - every last Tattum.  All fitted in well.  Only 2 tricky bits -

i) trying to find who the Tattum witnesses to the marraiges were.  The complication being:  of the 3 Tattum brothers, Frances and George both had kids called Margaret and Mary and Ann and William also had a Margaret.  All 3 had a John.  So the Witnesses weren't always the bro. or sister of the bride/groom they were sometimes a cousin.  However I'm pleased to report that it looks like Mary the bridesmaid was lucky in the end as Mary the bridesmaid was probably the Mary who married in 1864 - but the other Mary remained unmarried.  Ann the witness to John's marraige was not Ann the sister (she was Ann Hughes by then) so the witness Ann must have been John's cousin.

ii) trying to find out which of my 5 John's was the one buried in 1898 - there were 2 strong possibilities.  It turns out to be John, the son of Francis who married Rebecca - the Rebecca buried in 1904.  I understand St Mary's still has a cemy - so it'll be worth my having a trip there when I next get up to N Wales - John and Rebecca will be buried together.  Before I got your info I had nothing to link the Tattums to St Mary's Bagillt - I only knew of the 4 Tattum sisters of Albert Ashford who are all buried in New Brighton Bagillt (the non conformist cemy) 

I've now got a really good pattern to my Tattums and I've started to get census info together on the new ones you've found, I'm also getting it for the Tattum girls where I now know their married names .  All building to a pretty comprehensive picture of "The Tattums of Bagillt".   I wouldn't be surprised if all the Tattums in and around Bagillt today might descend from those 3 brothers  ( I doubt if I can prove it but it'll be fun trying).

My particular line of interest (brother Francis) now has an almost complete set of dates of BMD (or burials) right back to Francis - which is amazing.  I've been working on my only gap (curiously the most recent part of the line) the wife of Francis (b.1859).  She was known as Emily - but the 1901 census (which took me ages to find as Tattum was transcribed as 'Laham' on Ancestry) records Francis's wife as Mary E - so she's Mary Emily, I s'pose.  It was worth finding the 'Lahams'  on the 1901 census though, as the Alfred Ashford T that you found the marriage for, is on the census - so every is fitting beautifully.  I'm getting there with Mary Emily she's a Williams (.... or a Probert ............. or a Cheney ............... or poss. an Adams!!) - I'm definitely getting there!

I can't thank you enough for all the info - it's been amazing.

Ninian

[Rosedale]

Hi Ninian,

Fellow Tattum-Researcher. I too am connected to the Tattum's of Mold and Gwernaffield - My G.Grandmother was a Tattum. I saw that post and notice you say you're connected to every last one. How exciting.

Kind Regards,
Lisa

[Ninian]

hello Lisa

Ah, what I said (or meant to say) was every last one of the Bagillt Tattums!   But I'm trying (not entirely successfully) to establish a firm link with the Mold/Gwernaffield Tattums (of various spellings Tatum Tattom etc). 

Further back in this string is info from Peter re a Caroline T and her 2 twins Isaac (who died) and Ubel/Abel.  I haven't got a link with them yet ...... but I have got a later Gwernaffield connection with my Tattums, which is:

1891  1 Coetia Gwyn, Bagillt, Holywell, Flintshire, Wales - RG12/4606/49/8
   
John*         TATTUM   H   57   M   Chemical Labourer   Bagillt, Flintshire   
Rebecca**  TATTUM   W   56   M                                      Bagillt, Flintshire   
Francis         TATTUM   S   30   S   Chemical Labourer   Bagillt, Flintshire   
Mary A         TATTUM   D   29   “                                      Bagillt, Flintshire   
Rebecca     TATTUM   D   22   “   Dressmaker                   Bagillt, Flintshire   
George        TATTUM   S   11   “   Scholar                                   Bagillt, Flintshire   
Thomas        ELLIS   BinLaw   59   “   Colliery Labourer                   Bagillt, Flintshire
* all speak English & Welsh except Thomas Ellis who speaks Welsh only

1901    Waen-Rwyddfyd Village, Gwernaffield, Holywell, Flintshire, Wales - RG13/5213/135/6
   
George   TATTUM   H   22   M   General Labourer   Holywell, Flintshire
Mary J   TATTUM   W   23   M   Gwernafield, Flintshire   
Mabel   TATTUM   D   8m      Gwernafield, Flintshire   
*all speak both English & Welsh

I don't s'pose George and Mary and little Mabel are yours?

Do you have Bagillt Tattums too?

Regards

Ninian

[albyw]

Hello it looks like one of your Tatum's married my Great - Grandfather Joseph Wilson (Elizabeth Tattum) their son Joseph Wilson was my grandfather and their first son William Wilson was my Great uncle, he was killed in a mining accident on the 30th Jan 1913. Have you any other info please on the Wilson family?

Many thanks

[Ninian]

Hello

I'm sorry I'm afraid I don't have anything on your ggrandfather and family other than his marriage to my Elizabeth Tattum:

MARRIAGE:
July 2 1864.
Joseph Wilson.         full age.  Ba. Joiner. Bagillt. Father, Thomas. Smelter.
Elizabeth Tattum(X) full age.   Sp.  Bagillt.            Father, William. Collier.
Witnesses. Thomas Wilson & Margaret Tattum(X)

I suspect the Thomas Wilson who was a witness was probably Joseph's brother or perhaps father but I 'm afraid that's all the info I have on the Wilsons. 

I've got plenty of info on Elizabeth and her brothers and sisters, parents etc though.  I'd be happy to send it if you are interested.

Do you know if Joseph and Elizabeth and family stayed in Bagillt or did they move elsewhere?

Regards

Ninian 

[Suze B.C]

Hi,
 Surprised I haven't been on roots before. I have been tracing the Tattums of Holywell/Bagillt for years. I grew up in Holywell and still have relatives there.My grandmother was a Tattum.
Just a brief outline.
John Tattum married Margaret Edwards 1801
Children
 Phoebe 1803 married John Thomas 1824
Harriet 1806 married Robert Griffths
George 1808 married Elizabeth Hughes 1832
Francis 1809
William 1813 married Catherine Conway
Thomas 1815
A Mary Tattum infant was buried 1800 Holywell and an Ann Tattum dau of John Tattum and wife Mary was christened June 20th 1802 , I believe she later married Edward Jones 1824 in Holywell.



Margaret Tattum 1833
Mary christened 20th April 1834 born 8th April 1834, baptism took place at Chester Rd, Wesleyan Chapel, Holywell1834
Anne Nov1836 married thomas Hughes
John Nov1839 married Elizabeth Evans
George  19th November 1841married Mary Ann Griffths., 6 September 1862 Holywell Parish Church.

Children of George and Mary Ann
Elizabeth Ann 1862
George 1864
Hannah 1866
David Thomas 1868
Llewellyn 1870
Edwin 1878
Louisa 1880
David Thomas married Elizabeth Ann Edwards and had 11 children, my grandmother was Lily their third child..
I have a lot of info  on others members of the family if you are interested.
looking forward to making contact.
Suze

[Ninian]

Hello Suze

Good to hear more about the Tattums - including some new ones, I hadn't found Phoebe 1803 or Harriet 1806.  I had an amazing response to my post on the Tattums, you'll have seen all the stuff I got -'twas brilliant.

I see you are descended from George 1808. The line I am most interested in is George's brother Francis 1810.  George, Francis and the other brother, William, all lived next door to each other on Bagillt Marsh in 1841 and 1851 (I think the 4th brother Thomas died in infancy?). 

I've got quite a bit of stuff on Francis' descendants (Francis seems to be a family name of the Tattums - it keeps reappearing again and again - in fact my cousin, whose mother was a Tattum is called Francis).  My Tattums stayed in Bagillt - did yours?

I don't s'pose you have managed to get any further back than John and Margaret Tattum (m. 1801) - I'd love to but unfortunately I haven't but haven't given up on it  ...... yet.

Hoping to hear from you.  I'd be happy to post my email address to correspond off-list, if it's easier.  Let me know if you want me to send it.

Regards Ninian

[Suze B.C]

Hi, I would love your email address as I like you have too much info to post on roots. So glad to get in touch with you.
Suze