Burial Over Wyresdale lookup request

[Aulus]

I too have some Winders from Over Wyresdale in my tree.  1st and 2nd cousins 3 or 4 times removed.

My great (x3) great aunt, Susanna Marsden (b. 25 Feb 1807, bapt. 5 Apr 1807 @ Whitewell - info from the Whitewell PRs) married James Winder (b. 1799) 19 Feb 1829 at Slaidburn (info from a tree on ancestry and not checked by me, as they're pretty distant).

More interesting to me is that on the 1871 census, my great grandfather, Henry Thomas Stevenson (31/8/1866-10/11/1924) is not with his mother who was living in Leeds with her second husband, John Burton (her first husband John Stevenson died in the Withington workhouse at 5.40 a.m. on 6 June 1867), but he (Henry Thomas Stevenson) is a "visitor" in the household of Thomas Edward Winder (a book-keeper born c. 1825 in Lancaster) and his wife Isabella Winder (b. c. 1836, Hawes, Yorkshire). 

My presumption (and it's no more than a guess) is that Thomas Edward Winder is a cousin of Henry Thomas Stevenson's mother, Isabella née Noble.

The Susannah Marsden that married into the Winders is a sister of Hannah Marsden (1813-24 Mar 1881) who married a John Noble at Whitewell on 2 Dec 1833 and was the mother of the above-mentioned Isabella Noble (bapt 31 Aug 1834 at Whitewell, d. 8 Aug 1894 in Blackpool).

Another Marsden sister, Isabella Marsden (28 Apr 1794-28 Nov 1871) married a John Simpson and lived most of her life as a farmer at Lower Moorside Farm, Over Wyresdale.

These Marsden sisters were the some of the children of William Marsden (1762-25 Jun 1841) and Isabella Dewhurst (1766-11 Aug 1855) who married 26 Apr 1791 at Whitewell.

[Phil Tomlinson]

Here is my Wyresdale connection in brief.  I hope it is not too boring or confusing -- I am just trying to establish a link with a fellow researcher.  At this point it is all through the Bamber family. 

My earliest link is through William Bamber of Hawthornthwaite who left a will dated 1697.  Although my Bambers were overwhelmingly Catholic, William directed in his will that he be given a "Christian buriall in frends buring ground".  I assume this to mean Chapel House near Abbeystead.  Heirs contained in the will are daughter Ann wife of Robert Townson of Moorhead; unknown deceased daughter the wife of Robert Clarke of Conder Green (and their daughter Alice Clarke); and son Thomas and his wife Elizabeth.  Thomas received the property.  Apparently William's wife was decased by 1697.  I do not know her name but going by naming patterns of the following generation it could be Dorothy.  My gut feeling is that she was connected to the Cragg family but I have nothing to substantiate this.  Executor of the will was son Thomas Bamber.  Witnesses were James Prokter, Mary Taylor, and Timothy Cragg.

Son Thomas of Hawthornthwaite left a 1726 will and died that same year -- burial in Lancaster.  In the will he lists all of his properties he was leasing but they are very hard to read.  Some of them look to be "Corn Close", "Whitendale Garth", "Bond Field", "Bond Barn", "Roplat", "Threlforfield", Greenwood Gate", and "Doholm Top".  Son William was the main heir of the land.  Others mentioned are daughters Dorothy and Elizabeth, as well as his "five younger children" who apparently are his children with his second wife Margaret Gant of Singleton.  The younger children are Jennet, Ann, Richard, Helen, and Catherine.  His previous wife was named Elizabeth according to the 1697 will of William Bamber.  Whether she is the mother of the older children I cannot be sure.  Executors of the will are wife Margaret and her brother Richard Gant of Singleton.  Witnesses are James Snape, Thomas Parkinson, and William Calvert.

William, son of the above Thomas, was born ca. 1687 according to the 1767 "Returns of Papists".  He is listed in the returns with his wife Margery who was born ca. 1689.  In his 1771 will he is called "William Bamber the Elder of Hathornthwaite in Over Wyresdale".  Heirs are daughter Ann the wife of Robert Ibberson of Bonds near Garstang; grandaughter Margery Ibberson; grandaughter Elizabeth Turner (maiden name Harrison); son Richard Bamber; daughter Dorothy the wife of James Robinson (of Wyresdale); grandaughter Elizabeth Bamber (daughter of decased son John); and sons Thomas and William, who apparently were older sons as they received most of the property. 

His wife Margery had died previously, in 1769.  I do not know her surname but the gut feeling is she was connected to the Winder family.  Executors of the will were sons Thomas and William Bamber, and Edward Winder.  Witnesses were Edward Winder, James Winder, and Thomas Winder.  William and Margery were both buried at Over Wyresdale.

I am descended from the son Thomas Bamber (son of William and Margery).  He was born ca. 1724 according the the 'returns of papists'.  He married Ann Drinkall in 1773 who was nearly thirty years his junior.  There are a lot of Drinkalls in Wyresdale but I am unsure which family Ann belonged to.  Thomas died in 1798 in Hawthornthwaite, and Ann died in 1810 in Great Eccleston.  Ann inherited all of the property of her brother-in-law William Bamber of Great Eccleston when he died in 1806.  She made her own will prior to her 1810 death.

Thanks,
Phil

[jinks]

PhilTom

Have you got the books Longer Sen from Chipping Local
History Society, there is an article about the Bamber Family not sure
if they are connected to this family, if you dont have the books
I will look into it for you.

Jinks

[Phil Tomlinson]

Jinks,
I don't have access to the books you refer to but would be very interested to see the references to the Bamber family.  I've always suspected perhaps my Bambers came out of Singleton (the Bambers of "the moor") but have never found a link to there.  Perhaps 'Longer Sen' will give me a different perspective.

I'm in the USA so I rely heavily on the internet, on microfilms I order from the LDS church, and occaisional trips to Salt Lake City which by the way is a beautiful city.

[jinks]

Bamber family of Chipping details sent by PM

Jinks

[Deborah K]

I came across Phil's post while searching for Drinkall references. I think that the Ann Drinkall who married Thomas Bamber 30 Jul 1773 in Lancaster is the daughter of Nicholas Drinkall and Ellen Harrison bt 28 Jul 1751 in Over Wyresdale. The marriage bond however shows her age as 21+ and his age as 22 so I don't think he was 30 years older than her, perhaps you have generation missing? Of course you may well have discovered this already for yourself now there is so much more info available online

[Phil Tomlinson]

Deborah K,
The Thomas Bamber & Ann Drinkall marriage and their ages are legit and have been proven on many levels for many years.  Thomas Bamber 1724-1798 and Ann Drinkall 1751-1810.  Yes she was the daughter of Nicholas Drinkall and Ellen Harrison.  Are you researching the Drinkalls of Over Wyresdale?
Phil

[Deborah K]

Possibly a mistranscription in the Lancashire Archives index to the marriage bonds then, 52 would sound quite unlikely to someone not in the know.
Yes I am researching the Drinkalls. I started with the Halls many years ago as my g grandmother was Deborah Ellen Hall. Her grandmother was Ellen Drinkall so I have recently started looking into her ancestors. She descends from John Drinkall father of Nicholas but from another son called Thomas.

[Phil Tomlinson]

Ages recorded on marriage licenses were often to establish that the potential bride and groom were of age, so Thomas Bamber's age is given as "aged twenty two years and upwards" and Ann Drinkall's age is given as "aged twenty one years and upwards".  Often, as in this case, the age recorded was nowhere near the actual age.  Are you on ancestry-dot-com?  I have much Bamber and Drinkall maerial there.
Phil