Royal Navy 1920s? Uniform Identification

[liverpool annie]

Isn't it a pain when they all have the same name and live in the same place ?? 

My family is like that too I'm afraid !!

So are the two I found related at all or no ??

Annie 

[HogHedge]

Probably, but getting more distant.

[easy12]

Hi HogHedge,
                         your photo is definitely one of a Master at Arms as shown by his lapel badges and the sword. A  Master at Arms was the only NCO allowed to have a sword I believe.
easy12

[HogHedge]

Thanks Easy,

Yes I had read that about swords too. Just found a good page on the Regulating Branch at http://www.rba93.com/history.htm. It says:-

"In 1879, to indicate his special position, the M.A.A. was permitted to wear a frock coat and carry a sword.  To be distinguishable from the officers' dress, the coat was to have 4 buttons instead of 5 and the sword was to be plain with a black hilt."

The sword and buttons fit in with the photo but not sure about the sword.

I had assumed the lapel badge was just a standard RN badge but the Master At Arms did seem to have a crown in a wreath badge as displayed here:- http://www.kellybadge.co.uk/images/M2O503.jpg. Not sure if my photo shows this; it is difinitely a wreath but what is in it is dufficult to make out.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to get my hands on the original of the picture to try re-scanning it. Best I could do was to try enhancing the contrast, etc. to get a better view of the medals.

He seems to have 4 round ones and a star. I guess the star is the WW1 1914-15 Royal Navy Star and two of the round ones must be the WW1 Victory Medal and British War Medal medals? Could one of the others be a Royal Navy Long Service & Good Conduct Medal?

Thanks,
hogHedge

[neil1821]

Medals from left to right are:
Naval General Service medal 1915-62 with clasp for Persian Gulf 1914
1914-15 Star
British War medal
Victory medal
Long Service & Good Conduct medal

The star looks obvious, from which we can infer the BWM and VM.
LSGC award is given on the page of the service record that you've posted (right hand column near the bottom says "Gtd LSGC medal")
Since the first medal is before the star it has to be something pre WW1. HMS Odin was one of the ships eligible for the NGS for Persian Gulf 1914 and given that your man was on the Odin at the right time.....
http://www.medals.org.uk/united-kingdom/united-kingdom034.htm

[HogHedge]

Thanks Neil,

Arms runners in the Gulf. Nothing changes..

It sounds like the picture does fit with family legend.

I said earlier that I thought he had a lucky escape and I was referring to the theory that he finished his navy days as a Master At Arms on the HMS Hood. Luckily it seems he left the navy before WW2 so avoided being sunk by the Bismarck:-)

Am not sure when he left as he originally signed up for 12 years in 1911 but was still going strong in 1928. Perhaps he was also recalled/volunteered in WW2 (he would have been 46 in 1939) to the merchant navy or something.

I have also noticed something else. In the remarks section of his service card there is an entry which says "Passed for K.R.A 15.9.24" or similar. Below his record is the record for another person who was also a Regulating Petty Officer and in their remarks section it says "Passed for M.A.A 17.9.23". Could William's record really read "Passed for M.A.A", but in bad handwriting, and for it to stand for "Passed for Master At Arms"?

Thanks Again,
Hedgehog

[neil1821]

I have also noticed something else. In the remarks section of his service card there is an entry which says "Passed for K.R.A 15.9.24" or similar. Below his record is the record for another person who was also a Regulating Petty Officer and in their remarks section it says "Passed for M.A.A 17.9.23". Could William's record really read "Passed for M.A.A", but in bad handwriting, and for it to stand for "Passed for Master At Arms"?

That's how I read it too, passed for MAA 17/9/24.

A bit more about HMS Odin in the Gulf 1914, secion titles Indian Expeditionary Force D
http://www.king-emperor.com/article2.htm

[HogHedge]

Oil. Looting in Basra. I think we must have got the dates mixed up