HARRIS, SHERRATT, East Anglia

[An65]

Israel Thorpe/Gray was the son of Meshack Gray and Sarah Harris.

[Lesley1]

Thanks for that info.

[I forget]

Thank you Loubielou,   

I have joined the message board and I'll see what transpires once my acceptance comes through.  (I will be posting about the sherratt side as this one is not getting anywhere at the moment)

Thanks again everyone.
I've been overwhelmed with info from here and am just waiting for my birthday money so I can purchase some more certs and the Harris book.
Plenty to be getting on with!
Cindy x

[Nightmare]

     I am a descendent (4 x Grt grandson) of Robert Gray & Mary Leighton who were married, 25 July 1797, Isleham, Cambridge, England. I have only just discovered this chat site & I am quite fascinated by the much of the chat exchanges involving many families I am researching & attempting to link together.

     I too tend to believe that Foundness/Founous/Fowk Gray to be a possible brother of the above Robert Gray though I am at present unable to verify such but, he fits very nicely.

     As well as the Gray family of Cambridge I am also keen to find further information on the Leighton/Layton/Laighton etc.. family.  Mary Leightons parents were William Leighton & Mary Torrington.

     I'm also interested in the king family. One of Roberts sons &, my ancestor, William Gray married Ann King (daughter of George King) on the 9 November 1833 in Mildenhall, Suffolk. There's strong evidence to also indicate that yet another possible/probable son named Henry married a Mary King who possibly may have been a sister of the above Ann King which sort of fits in with the Gypsy family traditon.

     Robert & Mary Gray relocated to Mildenhall, Suffolk sometime after 1812 & before 1833. From there some of their children eventually emigrated to both Tasmania & mainland Australia where several other of the extended Gray family of Cambridge either emigrated or, were transported as convicts.

[Grayaust]

This is a post that I promised An65 a long time ago…

I am also a descendent (6th generation I think if I have counted right) of Robert Gray and Mary Leighton.  My ancestor was their son Henry (born 1806) who married Mary King on 29/7/1831 in Mildenhall, Suffolk.  Mary was the daughter of George and Ann King and was born circa 1812.  Witnesses to the wedding were William Gray and Sarah King.

They had the following children:

Sarah/Sally Gray - Christened: 29/4/1832, Mildenhall, Suffolk
Leighton Gray - Christened: 1/6/1834, Mildenhall, Suffolk (baptism together with Susan Gray, daughter of William and Ann Gray)
Drusilla Gray - DOB: 22/08/1836, Christened: 13/12/1836, Math Wes Chaple, Mildenhall, Suffolk
Felix Gray – DOB: 3/05/1839, West Row, Mildenhall, Suffolk
Shadrach Gray – DOB: 21/03/1842, West Row, Mildenhall, Suffolk

Mary Gray died 15/02/1845 aged 33 at West Row, Mildenhall, Suffolk

Henry Gray and his 5 children immigrated to South Australia and arrived in April 1851 on board the “Osceola”.  The family eventually settled in and around the Giles Corner/Riverton district in South Australia and were strongly involved in the local Methodist church and local district council.  They originally leased then purchased land and were to the best of my knowledge reasonably successful farmers.

Henry eventually remarried and died in South Australia in 1891.  The brief details of the 5 children are as follows:

Sarah Gray – died unmarried in 1856
Leighton Gray – died unmarried in 1867
Drusilla Gray married John Forster and they had 8 children and settled in Edenhope, Victoria, Australia.
Felix Gray married Jane Nottle and they had 7 children.  The children married into various local farming families. 
Shadrach Gray married Jane Glanville and they had 3 children.

Most of the families remained in the agricultural sector - some until this day.

As well as Henry Gray and William Gray spending some time in Mildenhall, Suffolk, my research has identified the following Mildenhall Grays:

Sarah Grey/Gray – married to Richard Rolfe 1/11/1832 and gave birth to a son (Richard Edward Rolfe) on 2/12/1832.  Birth records of this child indicate Sarah to be the daughter of Robert and Mary Grey/Gray.  Records of another family tree suggest this Sarah Grey/Gray was born in 1816 in Dallington, Cambridgeshire.  Could she be a sister of Henry and William Gray?

Robert Gray – married to Susan Webb 5/11/1824.

Mary Gray – married to Matthew Stebbing 18/5/1826.

Mary Gray (daughter of Robert Gray) – burial 9/9/1802 (possible daughter of Robert and Mary Gray born in 1800??)

I have also uncovered death certificates that I think belong to Robert Gray and Mary Gray (Leighton).  Robert Gray – died West Row, Mildenhall 30/1/1843 aged 68 (DOB: 1775) – accidentally shot.  Mary Gray (wife of Robert Gray) – died West Row, Mildenhall 5/5/1849 aged 71 (DOB 1777/1778) – general debility.

There also seem to be a lot of King people around Mildenhall at this time.  However, I am yet to link then directly to either Mary or Ann King or to conclusively find George and Ann King (1841 census has a George and Ann King in Lackford, Mildenhall aged 70 and 65 respectively).  Given Sarah Gray was a witnesses at the wedding of Henry Gray to Mary King, it may well be she is a sister to Mary and Ann.  This would need to be confirmed.

Nightmare – given your lineage through William Gray are Australian like myself?  I have previously swapped emails with a couple of Australia based William Gray decendants??

Finally, based on names, dates and places it is reasonable to conclude my Henry Gray is the son of Robert Gray and Mary Leighton.  However, at this stage I have seen no primary source factual information to really confirm this link (ie not IGI).  Can anyone help me here???

[Nightmare]

Hi Grayaust,

   I had already researched most of your information some time ago now. I do have your Henry Gray entered as one of Robert & Mary (nee Leightons) Gray’s children based upon IGI research mainly. There is a lot of coincidences with Gray/King witnesses, Gray/King intermarriage, locations, dates, Gypsy names, the dual baptism of respective children of Henry’s & his brother William Gray, the King girls, etc…. Definitely some sort of family connection at the least, looks pretty convincing as far as Henry being Robert & Mary’s son ? Often that’s as good as it gets Grayaust.

From research passed onto myself from the King family, yes, Mary King & Ann King were sisters according to a King researcher based upon a King family bible inscription.

The Kings were another well known Gypsy family & again they also have many relationships with the Gray family. One example is as follows,

William King married Joycey Gray, daughter of William Gray & Salome Ellen Boillin. They had a daughter named Sarah King who married Walter Gray, son of Elias Gray & Sarah Smith.

I have Robert & Mary Gray’s children so far as being,

Robert Gray b. 1799 in Isleham, Cambridge, England
Mary Gray b. 1800 in Isleham, Cambridge, England, yes I have her as the one who died 1802.
Henry Gray b. 1804 in Isleham, Cambridge, England
William Gray b. 1812 in Dunnagan, Cambridgeshire, England
Sarah Gray b. 1816 in Dallington, Cambridgshire, England. Yes, this Sarah being the wife of the Richard Rolfe you mentioned.




Coincidently the Rolfe family also has another relationship I have in my research. A brief family outline showing such is as follows.

Susannah Rolfe.  She married William Faben, married 16 Jun 1791 in Burwell, Cambridge, England.

I.   Susannah Faben, b. 1768 in Burwell, Cambridge, England.  She married Thomas Gray, married 16 Jun 1791 in Burwell, Cambridge, England, b. 1764 in Cambridgeshire, England, (son of Thomas Gray and Elizabeth).

   A.   Joseph Gray, b. 1792 in Burwell, Cambridge, England.

   B.   Susan Gray, b. 1795 in Burwell, Cambridge, England.  She married Thomas Gray, b. C, 1798 in Great Shelford, Cambridge, England, (son of Foundness (Founous/Fowk) Gray and Mary).

   C.   John Budd (Jack) Gray, b. 1798 in Cambridge, England, d. 30 Aug 1868 in Australia.  He married (1) Uri Heron, b. 20 Nov 1803 in Surfleet, Lincolnshire, England, (daughter of Edward Heron and Rose Lovell). He married (2) Eliza Heron, b. 8 Nov 1807, (daughter of Edward Heron and Rose Lovell). He married (3) Maria Boswell.  He married (4) Harriet Williams, b. 1806 in Leeds, Yorkshire, England.  He married (5) Frances Dowling.

   D.   Pyramus Gray, b. 1802 in Outwell, Cambridge, England, d. 1886 in Louth, Lincolshire, England.  He married Amelia Heron, b. 1798 in Norfolk,England, (daughter of Edward Heron and Rose Lovell).

   E.   Maria Gray, b. 1805 in Upwell, Cambridge, England.  She married Israel Gray, b. 1805, (son of William Gray and Henrietta (Retty) Smith).

   F.   William Gray, b. 1808 in Upwell, Cambridge, England, d. 1808 in Upwell, Cambridge, England.

   G.   Francis Gray, b. 1809 in Upwell, Cambridge, England, d. 1812 in Upwell, Cambridge, England.

H.   Esther Gray, b. 1812 in Cambridgeshire, England, christened 1812 in Outwell, Cambridge, England.  She married William Tansey, b. C. 1806 in Wales,United Kingdom.


The above Gray family branch has also married into the descendents of Robert & Mary Gray several times. My challenge at present finding who are Robert Grays parents ?

You also mention amongst the Mildenhall, Suffolk Grays -- Mary Gray married to Matthew Stebbing 18/5/1826. By coincidence I had lunch with some Stebbing family last Friday who are of Welsh Gypsies.

My apologies for taking so long in my response, but I hope I have shed some light upon some matters for you. It’s a well & truly tangled family tree fraught with many mysteries. Sometimes Grayaust exact verification is impossible, sadly.

Nightmare

[Grayaust]

Dear Nightmare

Thank you very much for all this valuable information.  It is indeed a tangled tree.  You have given me a few things to digest. 

Based on census data and the death certificate I am pretty sure belongs to Robert Gray, year of birth was 1775.  I have managed to track a Robert Gray on IGI born 8 Oct 1775 to John and Mary Gray in Gamlingay, Cambridge.  A possible hit – albeit from the otherside of Cambridge to Isleham where most of the early Robert Gray/Mary Leighton children were born?  Interestingly, according to IGI a girl (Paty Gray) was also born on the same day to John and Mary Gray – twins I guess…

Regarding the Mary Gray that married Matthew Stebbings – 1851 census suggests a birth year of  1807.  Perhaps another child of Robert Gray and Mary Leighton (after the death of the first Mary in 1802)?

One thing that maybe you could help me with.  Where abouts in Cambridgeshire were/are  Dallington or Dunnagan (birth places of Sarah and William Gray)?  I cannot find them.

Grayaust

[Nightmare]

Hi Grayuast,

   I think the name Leighton/Layton Gray (1834 – 1867) gives a further strong point as well for being a grandson of Robert & Mary (nee Leighton) Gray.

   In my data I have a John Gray who married “Mary” & they fit the time frame for being possible parents of Robert Gray b. 1775. I have listed below a brief family outline for you of which you can see but I have only one child, Charles Gray listed for them.

   Their descendents did marry into relatives of Robert & Mary (Leighton) Gray’s family so there are connections . As you can see the family tree becomes further tangled & this branch ended up in Lincolnshire, which, is where a lot of our other relatives at one time or another lived or visited. More information for this John & Mary Gray is needed but it’s a possible lead.


John Gray, b. C. 1755 in Cambridgeshire, England.  He married Mary.

I.   Charles Gray, b. 1783 in Cambridgeshire, England, christened 20 Jan 1783 in Meldreth, Cambridgeshire, England, d. 1862 in Balsham, Cambridgeshire, England.  He married Charlotte, b. C. 1780.

   A.   Charles Gray, b. C. 1811 in Bristol,Gloucestershire,England.  He married Lydia Elliot, married 1831, b. 13 Mar 1808 in Willoughby On The Wolds, Nottinghamshire, England, (daughter of John Elliot and Jemima Smith).

      1.   John Gray, b. C. 1833 in Brauncewell, Lincolnshire, England.  He married Eliza, b. 1834 in Ingoldsby, Lincolnshire, England.

      2.   Abraham Gray, b. 1835 in England, christened 26 Jul 1835 in South Kyme, Lincolnshire, England.  He married Harriet Smith, b. in Quarrington, Lincolnshire, England, (daughter of Matthew Smith and Charlotte).

      3.   Clark Gray, b. C. 1838 in Coleby, Lincolnshire, England.  He married Mary Ann Gray, b. C. 1837 in Leasingham, Lincolnshire, England, (daughter of Christopher Gray and Maria Smith).

      4.   Charles Gray, b. 1839 in England, christened 25 Jan 1839 in Harmston, Lincolnshire, England.  He married Charlotte Elliot, (daughter of Charles Elliot and Lydia).

      5.   Joseph Gray, b. C. 1840.  He married Mary Ann Newbury.

      6.   William Gray, b. C. 1842 in Burton, Lincolnshire, England.  He married Mary Ann Elliot.

      7.   Phoenix Gray, b. 1842 in England, christened 3 Apr 1842 in Harmston, Lincolnshire, England.  He married Lydia Newberry.

      8.   Abigail Gray, b. C. 1847.  She married Thomas Gray, b. C. 1846 in Waddington, Lincolnshire, England, (son of Christopher Gray and Maria Smith).

 
In my data I also have many Gray’s from Gamlingay, Cambridgeshire going back to the late 1500’s but, I haven’t made much sense of connecting them as yet, very patchy. So it’s not unreasonable over the generations & years for the family to spread from Gamlingay to Isleham, to Mildenhall, Suffolk & so on There are numerous Robert & John Gray’s listed in Gamlingay in the IGI.

The census material can be very misleading too as it was common practice for our Gypsy relatives to use various surnames, forenames as well as many variations of either or both. They also weren’t at all particular about birthdates & locations, I have some who have varied their birth year by 15 years or more in census ! & then from census to census they can vary again.

I'm a afraid I can't be of any assitance with the locations of Dallington & Dunnagan but, I did find a Dillington in Cambridgeshire. I tried the obvious sources but to no avail.

Nightmare

[Nightmare]

Hi Grayaust,

I dug around my files & realised that I had the following information regarding John & Mary Gray of Gamlingay, Cambridgeshire when I did a location search.  I believe they had the following children & grandchildren.

I tend to think that this John & Mary Gray are the more likely parents of Robert Gray at this stage. A further coincidence is that I also had twins but, sadly born stillborn, but I do have twins amongst my grandchildren & further twins are in my family bridging the generation gap to these people listed.

Robert Gray        - Christened  8 Oct 1775, Gamlingay, Cambridge
Paty Gray            - Christened  8 Oct 1775, Gamlingay, Cambridge
John Gray            - Christened 19 Jan 1780, Gamlingay, Cambridge
Zacharias Gray - Christened 11 Nov 1770, Gamblingay, Cambridge

Zacharias Gray married Barbara Ward,  7 Mar 1791, Gamlingay, Cambridge

They had the following children

Elling Gray        - christened 15 Jan 1792, Gamlingay, Cambridge
Frances Gray      - christened 9 Nov 1794, Gamlingay, Cambridge
Zacharias Gray  - christened 3 May 1797, Gamlingay, Cambridge


The following Gray family is living at Isleham, Cambridge at the same time as Robert Gray & there are family connections amongst Codilla’s descendents.. Codilla could be an aunty or great aunty of Robert Gray ? 

Codilla Gray, b. C. 1740 in Cambridge, England. Her parents are unknown at this stage.

I.   Charles Gray, b. 1762 in Ashwell, Hertsfordshire, England, christened 1763 in Ashwell, Hertsfordshire, England.  He married Aquila Smith, b. 1764 in Bury , St Edmunds, Cambridgeshire, England.

   A.   Charles Gray, b. 1784 in Teversham (Fordham), Cambridgeshire, England, christened 20 Jan 1788 in Teversham, Cambridgeshire, England.  He married Ann, b. 1794.

   B.   Abraham Gray, b. 1786 in Cambridgeshire, England, christened 2 Apr 1786 in Stow Cum Quy, Cambridge, England.

   C.   Riley Gray, b. 1789 in Fen Ditton, Cambridgeshire, England.  He married (1) Lydia Sly, married 10 May 1809 in Isleham, Cambridge, England, b. 1790 in Barrington, Cambridgshire, England, (daughter of James Sly and Sophia Gray) christened 14 Mar 1790 in Barrington, Cambridgshire, England.  He married (2) Sarah, b. C. 1787 in Basington, Hertfordshire, England.

   D.   William Gray, b. 3 Jul 1791 in Ashwell, Hertsfordshire, England.  He married (1) Salome Ellen Boilin, married in Lincolnshire,England, b. 1823 in Scampton, Lincolnshire, England, (daughter of George Boilin and Joyce Tansey) christened 1823 in Scampton, Lincolnshire, England.  Partner Bethania (Tabatha) Smith, not married b. 24 Aug 1800 in Seaton, Rutland, England, (daughter of Wisdom Smith and Hannah Smith). He married (3) Tabitha Smith, b. 16 Nov 1803 in Cropwell, Nottingham, England, (daughter of Wisdom Smith and Hannah Smith).

   E.   Acquila Gray, b. 1793 in Isleham, Cambridge, England, christened 21 Oct 1793 in Isleham, Cambridge, England.

   F.   Elizabeth Ann Gray, b. 1795 in Isleham, Cambridge, England, christened 22 Nov 1795 in Isleham, Cambridge, England.

   G.   John Gray, b. 1798 in Cambridgeshire, England, christened 19 Apr 1798 in Isleham, Cambridge, England.  He married Margaret Richardson, married 1821 in Brandon, Suffolk, England, b. C. 1801 in Bramber, Suffolk, England.

   H.   Amy Gray, b. 1801 in Isleham, Cambridge, England, christened 27 May 1801 in Isleham, Cambridge, England.

   I.   Cordelia Gray, b. 1805 in Isleham, Cambridge, England, christened 24 Mar 1805 in Isleham, Cambridge, England.

   J.   Christiana Gray, b. 1803 in Isleham, Cambridge, England, christened 14 May 1803 in Isleham, Cambridge, England.

   K.   Peter Gray, b. 1807 in Isleham, Cambridge, England, christened 29 Mar 1807 in Isleham, Cambridge, England.  He married Sarah, b. 1807.

   L.   Margareta Gray, b. 1807 in Cambridgeshire, England.

   M.   Levoy Gray, b. 1809 in Isleham, Cambridge, England, christened 13 Aug 1809 in Isleham, Cambridge, England.

   N.   Bathsheba Gray, b. 1812 in Isleham, Cambridge, England, christened 24 May 1812 in Isleham, Cambridge, England.

Nightmare