CORNWELL from Bottisham

[tidC]

Hi Everyone. I'm a new RootsChat user, and am very pleased to have stumbled on your discusssions about the ubiquitous Bottisham CORNWELLs. My interest is in any relationship between Eli CORNWELL (Jack CORNWELL VC's father) and one of my distant uncles, Israel CORNWELL (born Q3/1861 in Bottisham - where else!?). Israel was a railway man living in Swaffham Bulbeck around 1900/1910, and I'm pretty sure his grandparents were Robert CORNWELL (bap. about 1804) & Hannah AYRES. (AYRES: now there's another name that crops up all the time, of course).
Robert was a contemporary of Phillip CORNWELL (bap. about 1801) but I can't find if they were  cousins or even brothers: Phillip's father William (born about 1760/70) seems an elusive chap and I haven't located any other of his sons apart from Phillip.
Any info., comments or tips gratefully received.
All the best,
Pete C (alias tidC)

[Mr.Blueyezz]

Hi Pete C

Welcome to ROOTSCHAT.com!

The only bit of info I have is that Eli Cornwell was my Great Grandfathers brother,he was Absolom.
Don't know a lot about Israel Cornwell but I think he appears in my family tree somewhere.

Regards

Andrew 

[Peter Cornwell]

Hello Peter,

Welcome aboard. Robert CORNWELL & Hannah (AYRES) were the grandparents of Eli CORNWELL while Philip CORNWELL & Ann (AYRES) were grandparents of Israel. Thus, Robert & Philip CORNWELL were first cousins making Eli & Israel CORNWELL third cousins.

As you say, William CORNWELL (1770 app - 1836 app) is elusive & details of him are somewhat sketchy but I believe he sired three boys in addition to Philip: (William 1790 - 1790), John (1796 app - 1868), & William (1796 app - btw 1841 and 1851) plus two daughters Mary Anne (1792 app - ?) & Sarah (1802 app - 1826).

[tidC]

Gents,
Very many thanks for getting in touch.
To my acute embarrassment (oops!) - it must have been my excitement at finding RootsChat (!) - I see that in my message I got Eli and Israel the wrong way round. My apologies. So, Peter, you're absolutely right: Eli was Robert & Hannah's grandson, Israel was Phillip & Ann's grandson.
Frustratingly, this still puts me back at square one as it's Robert and Phillip that I'd like to connect 'by blood' so to speak (i.e. in order to make an equivalent connection between Eli & Israel). I can't definitely say they were cousins unless there's a link between them both that goes up to William as the common ancestor. And thanks for the info on William's other children, by the way.
Andrew, in rooting around the CORNWELLs, I also found your Absolom and thought I'd cracked the problem because of all the obviously biblical names: surely they were all brothers or cousins (??), but it's not that simple is it?!
Incidentally, what's your interest in CARTERs? That's my surname.
Thanks again and best regards,
Pete C (alias tidC)

[Peter Cornwell]

Peter,

As I said, Robert & Philip CORNWELL were first cousins; their respective fathers Holmes CORNWELL (1764 app - 29 Jun 1837) & William CORNWELL (1770 app - 1836 app) were brothers - both sons of William CORNWELL (1731 app - 1795) & Elizabeth HOLMES.

[tidC]

Thanks, Peter.
I haven't got enough info on Holmes ... If he and William were indeed brothers, then the 'cousins connection' between Phillip and Robert (and hence Israel and Eli) is made.
Regards,

Pete C (tidC)

[Redroger]

I have a William Cornwell b 17 October 1769 but I have no detail; of his parents or even where he was born.I have Holmes b 1764, but the tracking of the family in the 18th century is extremely difficult. I do know definitely that I am the first cousin twice removed of Jack Cornwell VC my maternal grandfather Samuel Ayres (1868-1935) was his first cousin, being the oldest child of James Ayres and Emily Cornwell (1850-1941) who was the older sister of Eli (1852-1916) who died in 1916. Eli married twice first to Alice Carpenter, and after her death to Jack's mother Lily King who died in 1919. Jack was the second of their 3 sons, they also had a daughter Lily. I remember being told by my late grandmother who was close to Lily(senior) that Jack was exhumed and given a state funeral after the Admiralty visited his parents shortly after his death and pressured them into it to boost national morale.

[Peter Cornwell]

It has long been suggested that the state funeral lavished upon boy John Travers CORNWELL VC was prompted by a government who wished to divert as much attention as possible from the failure of the Royal Navy to obtain the decisive victory that it should have over the German High Seas Fleet at Jutland. 'Spin' clearly being no modern phenomenon.

As for 'Jack's' lineage, has anyone actually traced the marriage of Eli CORNWELL & Lily KING ? And (for that matter) the previous death of Alice CARPENTER ? I would welcome details have you done so.

[Redroger]

Exactly Peter, I wonder if any papers about the state funeral have survived in the National archive, worth a look I think? I have just checked my data base and find that while I have Eli marrying Alice at West Ham 21 September 1884 I have nothing definite on either her death or his second marriage to Lily. I am about to see what I can find out. Watch this space.