COMPLETED Salisbury St Thomas Baptism - JUDD

[anewitt]

Hello,
Is there anybody out there who could  look up SALISBURY ST MARTIN Baptisms for ESTHER JUDD c1827 ? The IGI covers St Edmunds (no luck there), but not St MARTIN for that period.
Thank You, Alan.

[colinsorigins]

Hi Alan

It seems your William Judd was baptized Laverstock 7 Dec 1776 and his parents were William Judd of Peters Finger and Sarah Perry of Clarendon Park who married 12 Oct 1771 at Laverstock.   [It is probable that the family is descended from Thomas Judd of Winterbourne Gunner who married Edith in 1518].   This date of birth does fit with the age of 60 for the William Judd of Catherine St in the 1841 census;  there is no Emma in the 1841.

[the spelling of Peters Finger is interesting because it is in Dorset, whereas Petersfinger is adjacent to Laverstock]

Whilst it is common for people living in and around Laverstock to worship at St. Thomas it seems  that, if this is your William, he moved into Catherine St. in Salisbury;  it seems that he must have had sufficient money to set up a business.   I have not pursued this, but a will for William Judd, butcher, 1849 is recorded in Wiltshire Wills.

[probably a red herring, but there is a marriage for William Judd of Broughton and Mary Ann Bell in Whiteparish 26 July 1824]

Happy hunting

Colin

[nicky c]

hi,

St Thomas church is very close to the Close and is the main Church for the Town, and is very close to Catherine Street. St Martins is about a 10 min walk from the Town Centre.I live in Salisburyso if you need any help ie photo's etc let me know.
                              nICKY
                         

[anewitt]

Hello,
THANK YOU to Colin & Nicky for your recent additional information. It is much appreciated.

I am still struggling to ascertain  for sure which WILLIAM JUDD is HESTER's father.
As Colin points out William the butcher came from Laverstock, where he married Elizabeth Biddlecombe. It appears that, after Elizabeth's death in 1806, he then came via Petersfinger to Salisbury where he married Mary Ann Burlton and settled in Catherine Street. Here they had several children including EMMA born 17/9/1826 (baptised 17/1/1827).
Was she in fact HESTER ? But then, how could she mistake his occupation for a Carpenter ?

Also there was William from Broughton marrying Mary Ann Bell at Whiteparish in 1824.
Similarly, William who married Mary Ann Gray at Netherhampton 1806.
Also William, father of Ann baptised at Wilton 1808.

If anybody could eliminate any of these WILLIAMs from being Hester's father c1827, that would help.
HESTER's baptism would be the key, but  maybe it isn't possible.
 
I'm still searching.
Regards, Alan.

[anewitt]

Hello,

I believe that I may have partially solved the mystery concerning the birth of HESTER JUDD.
It would seem that Kris was on the right track with HESTER JAMES.
 
It looks like Hester James's parents could have been WILLIAM JAMES & ANN SWEPSON who married at Market Lavington in 1803. From the Sarum Marriage Licence Bonds, William was a Carpenter.

This would then make Colin's theory of "adoption" a possibility.
Maybe the JUDD family lost a baby daughter around 1827, or maybe Hester and the Judd girls were so close friends that she became "adopted" and nicknamed Hester Judd.

Returning to WILLIAM JAMES & ANN SWEPSON, they had at least 4 children in Market Lavington by 1810, but I've so far been unable to trace them until 1841 when they turn up at the Close, Salisbury, with son William next door.
Similarly, I'm not sure of their whereabouts after 1841. (There is a William recorded in the National Burial Index, buried at Market Lavington in 1830 aged 73, - a possibility.)

If anyone knows where they were, or went to, I would be grateful to know.
Most importantly however, the baptism of HESTER JAMES or JUDD still eludes me.
Thanks and regards, Alan.

[colinsorigins]

Hi Alan

An option for William James as father for Hester is William baptized 30 Dec 1801 at Salisbury St. Thomas with parents Hugh and Jane.   Although Hugh was a butcher, this does make it more likely that his son became a craftsman and perhaps a carpenter.

However, this does not fit with the 1841 census wherein Hester seems to be living with her mother Ann, but it could explain how the James family from Lavington turned up in Salisbury if related to Hugh.

I struggle with the idea that Hester James became Hester Judd on her marriage certificate because from my experience I would have expected her to have been given as Hester James akas Hester James, and her father to have been given as William James.

There is much further to go yet

cheers

Colin

[colinsorigins]

Hi Alan

I have finally had a chance to look at the St. Martins PR.   Unfortunately no relevant Judd baptisms.

I also had a chance to look at St. Edmonds.   There is another Willaim and Mary Anne, in this case living in Endless Street.   There are 3 baptisms:

Eleanor - 3 May 1816
Willaim - 20 Dec 1820
Sarah   - 23 May 1825

The father is variously a servant, a porter and a labourer.

So still no Esther in Salisbury churches but there others of different denominations.

A further possibility is Laverstock which seems to be the local church for Peters Finger.   Some of the PR is in the IGI but I don't know how it got there and I don't know if it is all there.

Could there be a third William and Mary Anne Judd in Salisbury and district?   Seems unlikely.

With a decreasing list of possibilities, Emma remains worth considering.   May be the clerk made a mistake entering the name in the register or may be the family changed her name later; pursuing the will of William Judd the butcher could confirm or deny this.

Best wishes

Colin

[anewitt]

Hello Colin,

Many thanks for your work on my behalf regarding HESTER JUDD.

Upon further thought, I must agree that Esther James and Esther Judd being the same person is looking unlikely.

WILLIAM & MARY ANNE JUDD in Endless Street plus 3 baptisms is interesting. Could this be the William who married Mary Ann Gray 10/4/1806 at Netherhampton, followed by the baptism of their daughter Elizabeth 22/7/1811 also at Netherhampton ?
Then there is the William who married Mary Ann Bell in 1824 at Whiteparish. They appear in 1841 to be living at Broughton, Hants, where his occupation is given as "Dealer"

That said, are there any other local Williams not necessarily married to a Mary Ann ? As I only have WILLIAM for Hester's father - but I'm unsure of her Mother's name.

I suppose it's also possible that HESTER wasn't actually born in Salisbury, but merely that her earliest recollections were of living in the"Close" area.

Your suggestion and reasoning regarding Emma does sound good. I have sent for the will of William Judd the butcher, hoping that it may shed some light. If anything positive comes from that, I will let you know.

Just as an aside, ESTHER / HESTER JUDD & FRED LIDDALL were both residing at Marlborough College when they married 4/3/1849. However, in 1851 they have returned to live at East Harnham. Just along the road from there in the Alderbury Union Workhouse are 3 JUDD orphan girls (Jane 16, Ellen 13, Winifred 5, all born at Fisherton). Could this be coincidence ? Or is it possible they may be her siblings / relatives, and she keeping an eye on them.

I'm still searching.
Thanks and kind regards, Alan.

[anewitt]

Hello,
Received the will of WILLIAM JUDD, husband of Elizabeth Biddlecombe & Mary Ann Burlton.
Unfortunately, no fresh leads there. Like most wills, once all the "legalese" is stripped away, there's very little "body" to it. The only thing I learnt is that, apart from leaving most things to Mary Ann, he gave a few pounds to his daur, Elizabeth, who married a James Harrison. Perhaps this may be of assistance to someone.

I'm still searching.
Kind regards to all, Alan.