COMPLETED Salisbury St Thomas Baptism - JUDD

[anewitt]

Hello,
Please could anybody look up for me the Baptim of ESTHER / HESTER JUDD c1827 at Salisbury St Thomas ? She claims to have been born at "Close", Salisbury, and her father was William JUDD. From the IGI, I have found William & Mary Ann JUDD - parents of several children baptised at St Thomas around that period, - but no ESTHER (or HESTER).
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Alan.

[krisesjoint]

Hi Alan,

I can see a few not listed on the IGI, (all extracted records) taking the tally to 13  but alas no Hester 

possible marriage in St Martin

William JUDD (Widower of Petersfield Co Wiltshire) = Mary Ann BURLTON spinster by licence 30 Aug 1809 Salisbury St Martin

Baptisms all in St Thomas

William born 31 Jul 1810 baptised 8 Jan 1812
Edward baptised 8 Jan 1812
Ann born 13 Sep 1812 baptised 23 Apr 1815
Jane born 10 Apr 1815 baptised 23 Apr 1815
Jane born 14 Feb 1817 baptised 27 Feb 1817
Jane born 25 Mar 1818 baptised 10 Jan 1821
Thomas born 27 Mar 1820 baptised 10 Jan 1821
Sarah Mary born 1 Jul 1822 baptised 29 Jan 1823
George born 4 Sep 1824 baptised 15 Dec 1824
Emma born 17 Sep 1826 baptised 17 Jan 1827
Charlotte born 13 Jan 1829 baptised 14 May 1829
Charles born 17 Jul 1830 baptised 26 Jan 1831
Frances (Male) 16 Apr 1834 baptised 14 May 1834

Kris 

[krisesjoint]

Perhaps we are looking in the wrong place

http://salisburycathedral.co.uk/history.close.php

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/WIL/SalisburyCathedral/index.htm

I can only see Cathedral marriages to 1812 and nothing showing but as Hester was not born till 1827 her parents marriage is possibly after this time.

I see this family I have provided in the census in St Thomas - no Hester, so I don't think it is the correct family. Does your Hester/Esther appear in the UK Census? I have not had any luck locating her in 1841 or 1851.

Kris 

[krisesjoint]

I am still looking Alan. Does she become Esther Liddell (wife of Frederick) a miller/baker from Pewsey? I can see them in 1851 and 61 - 1851 Esther 24 b Salisbury, 1861 Esther 35 b Close Salisbury. Looks like although they move to Hampshire where Frederick then works on the Docks, she is pretty consistant with her name, age and place of birth. (apart from 1901 where both suggest Pewsey)

In 1841 I am just having no luck at all. The best I can come up with is Hester JAMES aged 15 at the close - residing with Ann JAMES 55 Ind, and George JAMES 11 HO107/1190/8 Folio 6 Page 5 address just Close. in the parish of The Close of The Canons of The Cathedral Church Next door is William James 30 Shoe maker and family.

Kris 

[anewitt]

Hello Kris,
MANY THANKS for your efforts so far, they are much appreciated.
Yes, Esther (Hester) does marry Frederick Liddall (Liddell) in 1849 at Marlborough. They were my 2xGt Grandparents (My Mother was a Liddall).
Like you, I haven't been able to locate her in 1841. Did she perhaps become pregnant and "disappear" around that time ?

Another couple of points worth considering are : -
1) On her marriage cert. in 1849, although she says her father was WILLIAM, she gives his occupation as Carpenter, (not Butcher as is William & Mary Ann), and not deceased. No family names among the witnesses.

However,
2)There is a gap between the children of William & Mary Ann around 1827-8.

Do any of these suggestions  trigger any further lines of thought  ?
Thank you, Regards, Alan.

[krisesjoint]

Hi Alan,

I really don't think this couple are the parents. Their normal range of gaps between these children is a little over 2 years which is what this gap is. As you say is he is a butcher, not a carpenter as suggested by Esthers marriage certificate, and we have good coverage for baptisms of 13 children, no Esther and there is no sign of Esther in 1841. Since Esther is consitant with a birth in Close/Salisbury I think you need to check those Cathedral Baptisms, or hope someone can do it for you.

For some reason those James in Close are still playing on my mind. I didn't have any luck finding them in 1851 yesterday. (Will try again today). The only Esther/Hester I can find in later censuses born in Close or Salisbury is yours. Of course this Hester James may not have been born there, as 1841 only suggests Wiltshire. We see at times when a woman remarried the children take the step fathers name for a time often reverting to birth name at time of marriage. (although if there is a chance that happened here, we still have this family next door of William the shoemaker. Now if he is a son this possibility blows out the window)

Kris 

[anewitt]

Hello Kris, 
I've taken your advice and sent for the Cathedral Baptisms. This does seem to be a possibility. If I find anything positive, I'll let you know.

As for the James family, I agree it is quite a coincidence to find a Hester of the right age living in the Close. William next door, however, doesn't help our theory - not sure - .  I'm still searching.
Regards, Alan.

[colinsorigins]

Hi Alan

First, sorry, no Judds in Cathedral registers.   But there are two other C of E churches in Salisbury, and of course several others of different denominations.

An alternative way of thinking.   If Esther was baptized St Thomas 1827, and her father was William and she was from the Close, it is possible that: she was baptized Emma and changed her name at a later date;  she was adopted;  William re-married after 1827 and she was his step-daughter.

Good luck

Colin

[anewitt]

Hello Colin,

Many Thanks for your reply and useful suggestions. I was starting to think along similar lines myself. As you rightly stated, there are no Judds in the Cathedral registers.
I'm not certain about St Thomas for her baptism, so I still need to check the other churches thoroughly.

I did wonder whether she could be Emma, later going by a nickname. The only thing which doesn't quite tally, is her father's occupation, but then I suppose that could be a mistake on her part.

From the IGI, it would seem that ESTHER was used several times as a JUDD family name.

I suppose I really need a check on St Thomas Burials & Marriages 1827 onwards, in order to establish whether William remarried.
I'm still searching -

Regards, Alan.