Stafford Birth Parents - SMITH

[simonwpb]

Looking at the workhouse school in West Bromwich NE District School...

There are 13 census pages of approx 300 children with a staff of 18 people all living at the school. Sort of an orphanage I suppose. Bertie could have been there since he was very little, if his mother died and his father was unable to take care of him?

Simon

[heywood]

yes I think that too re Florence but I am inclined to think that Helen is Helen Callow- and there is no child with her in 1891 

[heywood]

just going back to 1891 - Helen is indexed as Callow but is actually Bishop on the census form. (and a tailoress).
Free BMD
September quarter 1884 Wolverhampton Robert Thomas Bishop and Helen Collow - possible spouses.

BUT still no Florence (looked for Bishop)- well there are but not with Helen.

[simonwpb]

Thanks a bunch Heywood, you have already helped me a lot 

I always forget to look at the next page, and did not see the boarders. Their neighbour at No. 4 Back Wall was a retired police sergeant... if my GGF was "on the run" he would have been quite nervous!

So the theory so far is,
William and Hannah Rayner -his 2nd wife- left Warrington, Lancs and moved to the Midlands perhaps to be closer to her family due to illness of family issues.
Hannah became sick or died and her son Bertie ended up in an orphanage in West Bromwich.
William Rayner and his 2 children Amy and William changed their names to Smith for an unknown reason
William the elder then married for the 3rd time a presumably widowed Mrs. Helen Bishop maiden name Callow.

Lots of lines of investigation here...
Need to verify relationships
In 1891 was Florence Bishop ? age ~4 living with other Callow or Bishop relatives?
Dates of possible BMD's
Was Nellie Smith b. 1893 Wolverhampton William and Helen's daughter?

- Simon

[heywood]

younger children are perhaps Helen's I would suspect.
I have scoured the censuses for Florence.
Not to bore you but I had a wonderful theory - had found a Minnie Bishop- same age as Florence-  in hospital. Had found Robert Bishop (at least a Robert Bishop)  with a sister Minnie - hence family name. Then I think i found Minnie as an adopted daughter in 1901.
However, a Robert Bishop of similar age was a boarder at one time in Liverpool aged 17 yrs and guess what - he was a tailor 

I would certainly hope to find a sympathetic clerk who would check some of those births to see if they had father William and possible mother Helen- see what turns up.

best wishes with it all and lots of luck
heywood

[simonwpb]

Thanks Heywood, I know you put a lot of time into this mystery.

I may order a couple of prospective BMD's to see if I get lucky.

There are 2 possible deaths for a Hannah Smith (could not find a decent match for a Hannah Rayner)
2Q 1892 in Chorlton Lancs and 3Q 1892 in Walsall, Staffs.

Florence is at this point unexplainable.

One curiosity I found was a Nellie Bishop Rayner born 4Q 1893.  Correct age for Nellie Smith and includes two of the surnames, but this record was from Halifax Yorks., and how do you end up with a Nellie Bishop Rayner?

The only other evidence I have is anecdotal from my GM, who said she met William and "a woman who was not his mother" in 1918  Blackburn Lancs; children included Walter, an upholsterer and several daughters including a Margaret.

I will keep pursuing to try to unravel the relationships and what happened to his 2nd wife, and perhaps along the way correctly identify the siblings and find out the reason for the name change.

Happy New Year,

Simon

[heywood]

Amemdment:
Ignore most of what follows and then read the addendum - I think I am slowly losing my brain cells- I thought I was on a winner here but then went back to census and realised why I had discarded Florence Victoria!

Original text:
Wow: That rang a bell (I am in Lancashire) - your mum seems to be right because I had seen a marriage:
have just checked up and as ever - a bit tenuous but we must try everything in this game 

Marriage: Burnley Lancs Vol 8e pg 503 1907
Florence Victoria Bishop  possible spouse - Richard Bridge or George Roberts

I had looked because I had seen this birth but searched for her with no result.
Births: Florence Victoria Bishop 1887 Wolverhampton Vol 6b pg 548

There is one entry in 1901 for same name in Berkshire but wrong age and  there is a birth.                                                                           
Chorlton is Manchester so I suppose Walsall seems more likely re Hannah but Smith ...
well that's a bit of encouraging news for a Sunday morning. Sending for the certificate for Florence will show I suppose that she is absolutely nothing to do with you as a blood relative but would place her in the wider context of William. I wonder then did Helen decamp to Lancashire with the children?
Similarly Florence's marriage certificate may have a family witness - alternatively wait till 1911 census comes out and all may be revealed!


Addendum:
1891 has Florance Victoria Bishop with parents William and Agnes living outside Doncaster with lots of other siblings. Oh b*****

[heywood]

Definitely my final comment -

found the other Florence in Burnley in 1901 together with her family
parents in 1891 were William J E and Agnes S Bishop- 1901 parents Ernest and Ellen.
He obviously used his 'E' name and has a new wife 

[simonwpb]

I guess this secret has lasted a 100 years, it will keep a while longer. Sorry to have given you such a twister! Just be glad I didnt ask for help on my other GGF.

Up until 3 days ago I only knew of the William and Hannah Rayner family in Warrington and could not find anyone in 1901, so I assumed the family continued life as Rayners in Lancs., while my GF joined the army. I really have come a long way this week.

The breakthrough was receiving Bill's Military Attestation record from Kew using the regimental number inscribed on the rim of his South Africa medal.

Now with your help I have Callows and Bishop to consider, their 1st marriage and offspring an important clue; a lost child found in an orphanage; with some digging should confirm the rest as Helen's children. If Bertie went to the school, I cannot image any other children of Hannah's being raised by Wm&Helen.

If I get any corroborating evidence in the mail, I will let you know.

Simon