Stafford Birth Parents - SMITH

[simonwpb]

Hello all, sort of a strange request...

I just tracked down my 16 year old GF William Smith in the 1901 Census. He was living at No 3 South Back Wall Street in Stafford. His father has 3 different wives in the 1881,  1891 and now 1901 Census! My GF was born of the 1st wife, who then died in a later childbirth. I am trying to sort out the younger half-siblings.

There is a 14-year old Florence Smith that was not in my 1891 Census, so that begs the question of who was her mother? I don't know what happened to Hannah, wife #2.

What is the best way to determine who were the parents/mother of the younger children? 

The 1901 Census shows William Smith (40) Helen Smith (38)
Amy Smith (20)
William Smith (16)
Florence Smith (14) Wolverhampton
Nellie Smith (age 8 ) Worcester
Walter Smith (5) Worcester
Lilian Smith (3) Stafford
Ethel Smith (4 mo) Stafford
I also suspect there to be a Margaret born after 1901.

PS. To confuse the pot, the original family name was William Rayner, not Smith

Any advice is welcome!
- Simon

[ev]

hi simon

you don't half pick 'em 

start with the 1901 census
if you are sure this is your grandfather then this should be your starting
point
if his father was married to helen then the marriage date should give
a clue to their children
be aware that some of the children might be stepchildren(i.e. the mother
was married before)
with 3 marriages this is going to be some task and might be
expensive to prove as apart from son william any of the children(apart from
the youngest) could be stepchildren
dates of marriages and dates of death for wives would narrow down
the field

good luck 

ev

ps can you provide some info on the 1881 & 1891 census just to be sure
     we're all searching for the correct william smith

[heywood]

this is so intriguing! I switched off and then came back to it!

Ev,
I found the family as Rayner in 1891.

Simon - Bertie (1891 census) is in a 'school' in 1901 as Bertie Rayner is that right?
I am inclined to agree that Florence could be a stepchild- Helen's daughter. I can't see a death for Hannah Rayner.
Trouble is with Smith as a surname  but there are some possible births of younger children and you could apply for a certificate specifying William as dad.

Whilst William is Cheshire born Hannah is Staffordshire born so presumably that is why they went to Staffordshire.

very interesting 
heywood

[simonwpb]

Thanks for the help on this one... my ancestors certainly didnt make it easy...

First, this is definitely my family, as I have young William's Militia Attestation record with the same address, it was not easy finding a Smith who was a Rayner in Lancs 10 years previously... Note he changes the birth locations for both Wms in 1901 as well

I have not found Bertie Rayner in school in 1901, where was this?

In 1891 William Rayner is living with Hannah (Pass) in Warrington, Lancs with Amy, William and 1/2 sibling Bertie

In 1881 William Raynor is a tailor living in Warrington with his wife "Elisa" (Elizabeth Ann Grant)  and new baby Amy.

How can I trace 14 year old Florence to the correct mother? So many other questions, any help is really a blessing.

- Simon

[heywood]

I am assuming that this is your Bertie and of course it may not be -  (age slightly out) and you would wonder why? - seems to be like the Workhouse.

1901 RG13; Piece: 2725; Folio: 134; Page: 10

District Schools West Bromwich

Bertie Rayner 9 yrs birthplace unknown

As for Florence I was wondering if she belonged to Helen - but trying to trace that connection is difficult.

Do you have an explanation for the change of name- just wondering so please don't feel obliged. 

[simonwpb]

I see Bertie in the school... Impossible to say whether it is Hannah's son but sure does lead to all sorts of speculation.

With regards to the reason for the name change, that is my ultimate question. I had assumed I became a Smith because my GF enlisted in the army underage, but that is now not the case!

Why would a tailor in Lancashire move to Staffordshire and change his family's last name? My speculation has three possibilities: abandonment, a criminal act, or avoidance of debt. The truth he took with him to the grave, and my father and his siblings never knew the answer.

Perhaps if I make contact with some of these other siblings the answer may be with them. I would like to find a marriage for Amy, as that was Bill's only full sister.

If this is Bertie in a workhouse, the question begs what happened to Hannah?

A genealogical mystery,

- Simon

[heywood]

It looks as though Eliza died June quarter 1887 and a Hannah  Pass was married December quarter 1887 in Warrington. (I know you have this but I'm thinking   )

and Florence was born 1887 Wolverhampton (so census would have us believe).

The question is- did Hannah go back to Staffordshire for the baby or does Florence belong to Helen?

Hannah was a servant in Warrington in 1881 - no value but just found this info.  

[heywood]

Simon,
in my meanderings I have come across this:

1891 RG12; Piece: 2236; Folio 42; Page 4

the Callow family in Wolverhampton.
Amongst these are :
Andrew Callow 15 yrs (he is a boarder with the Smiths in 1901) and
Helen Callow b 1864 Birmingham.
She could well be Helen Smith of 1901.
Sadly there is no Florence aged about 3 with her. 

[simonwpb]

Heywood,

I appreciate the help!

I have the death cert for Eliza Ann.
William Rayner’s first wife died Jun Qtr 1887 at age 35.

In the Qtr following  of the same year, is a marriage:
Sep Qtr 1887 Warrington . Vol 8c, page 198

Hannah Pass is found in 1881 Census:
1881: Warrington, Lancashire
Ref: RG11 /  Piece 3794 /  Folio: 97 /  Pg  45
Address: 5(?) Liverpool Road
Servant: Hannah PASS 19, unm, b Wednesbury, Staffordshire
In Employ of William D JEANS & family, age 46, Solicitor

If the age for Florence is correct, she was born in 1887, another reason to believe she is Helen's daughter, not Hannah's.

It makes sense that William Rayner moved to Staffordshire with Hannah, then something happened to her. Name change could have happened either place. There is a significant age gap between Florence and Nellie...