Annan - an elusive seaman

[Fear na mara]

My Scots grandfather, John William Elliot was born in Nagasaki, 1870. His father, John Elliot was a Master Mariner, who died in Swatow(China) Hospital, Oct, 30th 1872. Exactly one year earlier to the day, John William’s mother, Eliza Ann (neé Baverstock) had died in Shanghai.
I now have a very full account of Eliza’s family.  National Maritime Museum, Lloyd’s Registers and the logs of the barque Rifle, have yielded every move of the ship from the week after John’s wedding at St.Mary , Newington, up to and beyond John’s death. I have a very full tree for the family who owned John’s ship
John gave his DOB for his Certificate examinations as 20th March 1834, Annan. On his marriage certificate his father’s name is given as John Elliot, Cabinet Maker.  Despite hours combing Scotland’s People – not to say many pounds spent – I cannot find any trace of John Elliot’s family. Would any of the experienced genealogists be able to offer a few words of advice on how I should proceed

[kenjo]

HI There,
Just a quick look I found this family......(I know this little John..is 10yrs old but it is a possiblity..and the father is JOhn and a Joiner....which can be a cabinetmaker)
Also Halfmorton is 10.2 miles from Annan..

1841 census

Halfmorton 
County: Dumfriesshire 
Address: Holm Head 

Parish Number: 828 


John Elliot 40  Joiner 
Margret Elliot 40 
Jannet Elliot 15
Andrew Elliot 14 
John ElliotJunr. 10 
Joseph Elliot 6 
1851 Census
Homehead, Half Morton, Dumfrees
Margaret Elliot 53yrs, born Cummertrees, Dumfrees.
Joseph Elliot 16yrs, born Half Morton.

This is interesting.....Margaret is living with her daughter-in-law...Ann ...who is married to a sailor...I wonder which one of Margarets sons was a Mariner?
1861 Census
13 Cumberland Terrace  Annan.
Margaret Elliot 63  Joiners Widow, born Cummertrees, Dumfriesshire
Ann Elliot, 28yrs, Daughter-in-law, Mariner (mercht Serv) Wife   born Annan.

There is a Margaret Elliot or Glover  who died in Annan, 1867
JOhn Elliot married Margaret Glover.
these are their children.. {you will notice that John was born 30 march not 20 march and the year was 1831 not 1834}....I hope this is your family....but there will have to be a lot more investigation..}
 HELEN ELLIOTT - 
Gender: Female Birth: 26 MAY 1820
 
 HELEN ELLIOTT -
Gender: Female Christening: 16 JUL 1820 

ISABELLA ELLIOTT
Gender: Female Birth: 10 AUG 1822
 
ISABELLA ELLIOTT -
Gender: Female Christening: 18 DEC 1822

JANET ELLIOTT -
Gender: Female Birth: 05 JUN 1824
 
JANET ELLIOTT -
Gender: Female Christening: 14 DEC 1824

ANDREW ELLIOTT -
Gender: Male Birth: 01 MAR 1826
 
 ANDREW ELLIOT -
Gender: Male Birth: 01 MAR 1827
 
JOHN ELLIOT -
Gender: Male Birth: 30 MAR 1831
 
 JOSEPH ELLIOTT -
Gender: Male Birth: 13 JUL 1834
 
JOSEPH ELLIOTT -
Gender: Male Christening: 10 DEC 1834

All born Half Morton, Dumfries, Scotland
 
Just as a matter of interest...Janet Elliot married James Jeffery 1848.....in Annan..

regards,
JO[/color]

[Fear na mara]

It's him. You have found them. Hang on, I need to read this again - but must go down to the vet first (to give me something for the excitement) and something for the dog's arthritis. Back very soon

[Fear na mara]

What a great job you have done Kenjo– experience counts. I have produced most of my data on the luck the beginner. You have found my great-grandfather – and his first wife and his family. I was concerned about the length of my first post so omitted some detail.
The London marriage certificate of 1869 gives John as WIDOWER. I had chased a poor ghost around Liverpool, but the marriage cert showed it was the wrong John Elliot. So your discovery is right on the nail. His mother, Margaret was living with his wife.

I had tried births between 1833 and 1838 on the assumption that apprentices, like soldiers, would offer themselves for service under-age, so I added four years to 1838, but did not imagine that he would have played his age down. But I should have done because on one set of Rifle logs he sets out with his usual age of 39 but ten months later lists his age as 42. (Date and place of birth were used as part of the Lloyd’s Register identity, along with, license number and place of issue.)

Now I see he had surviving siblings – Janet marrying a Jeffrey in Annan, shortly before John takes up his apprenticeship with Capt.Robert Ewart of the brig Lawson (out of Annan) in Sept. 1849.

I must now follow up all of these clues – where to start! I think I need to get a death for his first wife to ensure that everything remains respectable. Then try to follow up his sister Janet and brothers Andrew and Joseph.

I am so grateful to you.
The note at the bottom of your post gives a link to a website but the link is broken. Can you let me have a live URL.

[kenjo]

Oh I am glad you see the possibilities....work to do though.
If I may make a suggestion though....
Please buy the Death of Margaret in 1867...first.....then the informant will be a clue, hopefully as to who was still around in Annan....
I fear that the families have moved away....I am not even sure if Ann and John Married in Scotland or England and not sure if she died In Scotland....this could be quite hard from here on...
There could be emigrations (other family members) as well but to where...?

The link to my site will work soon according to Trystan.( RC wonder worker...THE MAN).
Don't forget to tell us here on this thread, how you go with the death certificate....Please...We all want to know..
regards,
Jo

[Fear na mara]

Have bought Margaret's death cert - quite the worst it of text yet. From what I can make out - and it is really very faint.
Widow of John Elliot, Joiner, 18th March - [ 4 lines of illeg], female, aged 70, Fathe, John Glover, Farmer, [ one line illeg] Helen Glover [ two lines illeg]. paratyphoid [three lines illeg]
McG? Medical Attendant.Jannet Elliot present (this is the clearest text), 1867, April 7th,
[illegible signature] Acting Registrar.

her son, John, the mariner, was Captain of the Regent at the time and was on a voyage to West Indies, then down the coast of south America and off to the East Indies. He hardly paused for breath at the end of tha voyage before he took the rifle to Japan for the first time.
This lad was no supporter of the 35 hour working time Directive.

[kenjo]

Good Work....
I wonder who jannet is?
You can ask Scotlandspeople for a new copy.....( they will send you an A5 size copy of the oroginal for free, by post)....
Go to Scotlandspeople ......logon....at the bottom of the page there is a link to Contact us...
click this...
At the bottom of the blue part ...click..."Continue here to fill out the contact us form"
then click on the third from the bottom..."Illegible image".....and give them all the details you can read....

I am trying to find anyone from the family....not having any luck....

Do you think that the informant Jannet Elliot...was her daughter? (even though she should be Jeffery)...or a daughter-in- Law.....is there a clue as to her relationship to Margaret?

Jo

[kenjo]

OK...I have found 2 girls who could be Margarets daughter....
1861Census
Isabella Elliot born about 1825, servant at Annan Manse, born Half Morton..

also..

Janet Elliot.born about 1827, servant at Long Meadow House, Annan, born...Kalfmorldie, Dumfrieshire ...( this should be Half Morton)...
I wonder if this is your Janet......and she has gone back to her maiden name...
Jo

[Fear na mara]

Yes it says Jannet Elliot daughter present.